Comments on: Attention Historians of the Future http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/ Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:09:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jason Scott http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63496 Jason Scott Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:04:49 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63496 By the way, I've put up some quick snapshots I took before and after the show (too busy during; Mr. Lydon runs a tight ship!) which are here: http://album.cow.net/2005.06.14.LYDON/ If you remove the ".m" in a photo, you can get the full-blown massive size, perfect for printing and hanging up in your cube. By the way, I’ve put up some quick snapshots I took before and after the show (too busy during; Mr. Lydon runs a tight ship!) which are here:

http://album.cow.net/2005.06.14.LYDON/

If you remove the “.m” in a photo, you can get the full-blown massive size, perfect for printing and hanging up in your cube.

]]> By: Jason Scott http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63495 Jason Scott Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:00:14 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63495 jonpetit: As I mentioned on the show, I don't think we lose the poor and the elderly. What we see now is that the ability to record or capture people in photographs, video or other media is dropping in cost so far that people who can afford a pack of cigarettes can afford to do some recording. And people who want to record their elderly relatives and groups outside the mainstream don't need a grant and an office in a college to do it. Regarding the relative worth of the two boys vs. the board gamer, I still contend we can't know in 2005 which is going to be more worthwhile in 2050. So save both! jonpetit: As I mentioned on the show, I don’t think we lose the poor and the elderly. What we see now is that the ability to record or capture people in photographs, video or other media is dropping in cost so far that people who can afford a pack of cigarettes can afford to do some recording. And people who want to record their elderly relatives and groups outside the mainstream don’t need a grant and an office in a college to do it.

Regarding the relative worth of the two boys vs. the board gamer, I still contend we can’t know in 2005 which is going to be more worthwhile in 2050. So save both!

]]> By: Jason Scott http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63494 Jason Scott Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:56:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63494 Hey there, everyone. Jason Scott here. I'm glad everyone enjoyed the show; I know I certainly did. Christopher Lydon! It doesn't get better than that. Lisa Williams: I made sure to mention Brewster Kahle's archive.org project, just for you; for a while, there was some idle talk of hiring me but we couldn't discuss it further since I'm inclined to stay in Boston and they would need me at the Presidio. Regarding your concern about news; most professional historians/researchers already know the importance of newspapers in research, even if in reality people don't do a great job in archiving them (see: Double Fold, by Nicholson Baker); Grant and I were mostly (in this show) talking about the unexpected historical usefulness of the mundane. (Which is, ultimately, not all that mundane.) ksandre: Thanks for the plug of my other works, although they weren't really the subject of this particular show. I gave Grant and Christopher Lydon a copy of it. Grant just finished a book too, I read at his weblog; "Culture and Consumption II: Markets, Meaning and Brand Management". Mr. Lydon didn't know that Grant and I have never met before. plnelson: You strike at a fundamental question, which is, "how will we possibly be able to handle this information with the same ease that we handle books?" There are a wide range of answers to this, and I definitely fall in the "technology will be able to handle it" because I'm such a techno-nut, and I've seen the advances we've made, but beyond the debate, it doesn't matter if we can or can't achieve it easily, because right now the content IS being generated and an effort must be made to save it and pack it away, or we won't have the content TO draw from. jc: I only agree with you so far, but yes, I am aware of the inherent issue of lies and minor lies told to ourselves even as we try to contain history; posed photographs and omitted details are all side-effects of the human mind's approach to self-description. But I contend that unintended information and details slip in even with the best of efforts to contain things to a self-centered reality; and the more information, the better. Otherwise it's all shamans and myths. Hey there, everyone. Jason Scott here.

I’m glad everyone enjoyed the show; I know I certainly did. Christopher Lydon! It doesn’t get better than that.

Lisa Williams: I made sure to mention Brewster Kahle’s archive.org project, just for you; for a while, there was some idle talk of hiring me but we couldn’t discuss it further since I’m inclined to stay in Boston and they would need me at the Presidio. Regarding your concern about news; most professional historians/researchers already know the importance of newspapers in research, even if in reality people don’t do a great job in archiving them (see: Double Fold, by Nicholson Baker); Grant and I were mostly (in this show) talking about the unexpected historical usefulness of the mundane. (Which is, ultimately, not all that mundane.)

ksandre: Thanks for the plug of my other works, although they weren’t really the subject of this particular show. I gave Grant and Christopher Lydon a copy of it. Grant just finished a book too, I read at his weblog; “Culture and Consumption II: Markets, Meaning and Brand Management”. Mr. Lydon didn’t know that Grant and I have never met before.

plnelson: You strike at a fundamental question, which is, “how will we possibly be able to handle this information with the same ease that we handle books?” There are a wide range of answers to this, and I definitely fall in the “technology will be able to handle it” because I’m such a techno-nut, and I’ve seen the advances we’ve made, but beyond the debate, it doesn’t matter if we can or can’t achieve it easily, because right now the content IS being generated and an effort must be made to save it and pack it away, or we won’t have the content TO draw from.

jc: I only agree with you so far, but yes, I am aware of the inherent issue of lies and minor lies told to ourselves even as we try to contain history; posed photographs and omitted details are all side-effects of the human mind’s approach to self-description. But I contend that unintended information and details slip in even with the best of efforts to contain things to a self-centered reality; and the more information, the better. Otherwise it’s all shamans and myths.

]]> By: andycarvin http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63493 andycarvin Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:53:40 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63493 Hi Brendan, Sorry I wasn't able to call in - I got a call from a journalist wanting to talk digital divide stuff, and we chatted for nearly 90 minutes; couldn't get the guy off the phone. :-( btw, I'm off to the CTCNet conference tomorrow, which is one of the biggest community technology/digital divide events in the US; I plan to record a bunch of podcast interviews with local community tech activists. I'll probably eschew my iTalk recorded for my laptop and Audacity, for the sake of listeners' ears; meanwhile, I just recorded an olympus ds-200 digital audio recorder for better mobile recording, particularly when I got to Korea next week and West Africa in July.... -ac Hi Brendan,

Sorry I wasn’t able to call in – I got a call from a journalist wanting to talk digital divide stuff, and we chatted for nearly 90 minutes; couldn’t get the guy off the phone. :-(

btw, I’m off to the CTCNet conference tomorrow, which is one of the biggest community technology/digital divide events in the US; I plan to record a bunch of podcast interviews with local community tech activists. I’ll probably eschew my iTalk recorded for my laptop and Audacity, for the sake of listeners’ ears; meanwhile, I just recorded an olympus ds-200 digital audio recorder for better mobile recording, particularly when I got to Korea next week and West Africa in July…. -ac

]]> By: davew http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63492 davew Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:40:58 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63492 I'm reminded of the excellent book <a href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=M07lq9eBDO&isbn=0553379267&itm=2" rel="nofollow">A Canticle for Leibowitz</a>, by Walter Miller: we may not be remembered how we think we will be remembered; fragments of the record (be they written, audio, or video) may suggest something completely different than we intended. Newspapers have this problem, as we tend to take them as fact, ignoring the point that the author / publisher chose to document only certain aspects of the events that transpired, and may have reported them with a political or editorial agenda (even if not, the simple notion of writing only part of what transpires influences how it is remembered). Now take into account photos, podcasts, and video - what does it actually 'say' by itself? I liked the guest's point when he pointed out the value of the letters would be much greater to future generations if an audio tape was created by the owner now, to give them context. Context is everything, and the value of building an archive of life as it is now is strengthened immensely when detailed metadata is added. Great topic; keep them coming! I’m reminded of the excellent book A Canticle for Leibowitz, by Walter Miller: we may not be remembered how we think we will be remembered; fragments of the record (be they written, audio, or video) may suggest something completely different than we intended.

Newspapers have this problem, as we tend to take them as fact, ignoring the point that the author / publisher chose to document only certain aspects of the events that transpired, and may have reported them with a political or editorial agenda (even if not, the simple notion of writing only part of what transpires influences how it is remembered). Now take into account photos, podcasts, and video – what does it actually ‘say’ by itself? I liked the guest’s point when he pointed out the value of the letters would be much greater to future generations if an audio tape was created by the owner now, to give them context.

Context is everything, and the value of building an archive of life as it is now is strengthened immensely when detailed metadata is added.

Great topic; keep them coming!

]]> By: fconte http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63491 fconte Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:04:05 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63491 Sure Brendon I once collected newspapers and magazines before the Age of the Internet. They tended to clutter our apartment; my wife thought I was nuts even though I am an aspiring historian thinking that these first drafts of history would be useful some day. I did the same when I lived at home; my mother thought having so many newspapers around created a fire hazard. As for linking the drive to archive to a relationship, hmm I can't answer that question. Maybe it's something we should have discussed before getting married. My wife speed reads books and then has the gumption to throw or give them away which is blasphemy to me. Say hello to Chris; he has a knack for bringing alive a very "geekish" topic. I'm loving it! Cheers Sure Brendon

I once collected newspapers and magazines before the Age of the Internet. They tended to clutter our apartment; my wife thought I was nuts even though I am an aspiring historian thinking that these first drafts of history would be useful some day. I did the same when I lived at home; my mother thought having so many newspapers around created a fire hazard.

As for linking the drive to archive to a relationship, hmm I can’t answer that question. Maybe it’s something we should have discussed before getting married. My wife speed reads books and then has the gumption to throw or give them away which is blasphemy to me.

Say hello to Chris; he has a knack for bringing alive a very “geekish” topic. I’m loving it!

Cheers

]]> By: jc http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63490 jc Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:54:19 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63490 Don't forget that regardless how many of these things we save, as with photographs, they will paradoxically help us forget things while reinforcing the memory of the particular subjects of the meduim. After the passage of enough time and enough referring to the "stored memories," the past morphs into only the inevitably modified memories primed by these subjects plus the invented "ego aggravated" stories, the little lies we tell to ourselves about how we would rather remember it, how we would like people to remember us, the addenda we use to disguise the way it really was to enhance our "role" in history. Don’t forget that regardless how many of these things we save, as with photographs, they will paradoxically help us forget things while reinforcing the memory of the particular subjects of the meduim. After the passage of enough time and enough referring to the “stored memories,” the past morphs into only the inevitably modified memories primed by these subjects plus the invented “ego aggravated” stories, the little lies we tell to ourselves about how we would rather remember it, how we would like people to remember us, the addenda we use to disguise the way it really was to enhance our “role” in history.

]]> By: Brendan http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63489 Brendan Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:50:03 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63489 fconte, can you elaborate? Tell you how you link the urge to archive to a personal relationship. fconte, can you elaborate? Tell you how you link the urge to archive to a personal relationship.

]]> By: jonpetitt http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63488 jonpetitt Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:48:46 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63488 a co worker related a story about cleaning out her late-husband's room. he had a little key envelope carefully labeled "useless key" a co worker related a story about cleaning out her late-husband’s room. he had a little key envelope carefully labeled “useless key”

]]> By: fconte http://www.radioopensource.org/attention-historians-of-the-future/#comment-63487 fconte Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:46:58 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=89#comment-63487 This is an immensely great topic, great because it raises existential questions. How do we derive meaning from the material things that we assume reveal certain elements about our lives? What I'm learning from this conversation is that collectors are great individuals with a keen eye to giving a head start to the historians of tomorrow. This question goes beyond the theme of "getting a life"; how do our quests manage to sustain relationships with significant others who may not share in their drive to archive? This is an immensely great topic, great because it raises existential questions.

How do we derive meaning from the material things that we assume reveal certain elements about our lives?

What I’m learning from this conversation is that collectors are great individuals with a keen eye to giving a head start to the historians of tomorrow. This question goes beyond the theme of “getting a life”; how do our quests manage to sustain relationships with significant others who may not share in their drive to archive?

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