One major point contributing to the current demise that was not brought up on the program is the rise in popularity with Mixed Martial Arts combat. I’m sure some have heard or even seen the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship). This is full contact fighting, but does have it’s own rules and regulations to ensure safety of fighters.

I also think it’s important to point out that whether we’re discussing boxing or MMA, it’s consenting adults of free will choosing to compete with one another. If you don’t agree with it, you have the same abilities to not watch it as those who chose to watch and compete.

Well, no one said that.

I don’t know why I’m arguing here, because I agree with anyone that publically sanctioned violence could or may lead to other forms of violence. But I think it might be a little to easy to say if we didn’t sanction boxing publically, violence would go away in our society.

Boxing or football or futbol all seem to me ways for us to metaphorically work out an elemental need humans have to compete against each other, to position the best of my ability and the best of your ability and see who wins.

Competition lies close to whatever it is that we call human nature. There are white collar versions of competition and violence which might have nothing to do with throwing a punch, but every thing to do with hurting, even destroying another person’s spirit, that are filled with brutality –I’m thinking of a cold corporate world, I’m thinking of politics, or the way Wall Mart dominates the economies of small towns, or foreign policies where a country invades and kills people that, for the most part were innocently attempting to live their lives.

I say these things not to argue this or that political position or policy but the merits of our decent and humane way of dealing of things in non-violent ways.

There is something wholly beautiful about two people, or two countries, or to regions putting it out in the open and fighting, however brutal and inhumane as it may be, in the open, in a metaphorical field.

When Real Madrid played Barcelona in the 1960′s and 70′s it was about too teams on the soccer field trying to kill each other it was a more poetic battle between Franco and Catalonia.

I also hate that individuals get exploited for fighting, but I don’t think that it makes the beauty of a competition any less beautiful or artistic. You could make a case for Nike exploiting Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, or the Catholic Church exploiting Michelangelo.

I am, also, concerned about the treatment of the fighters themselves. Some of them may be masochistic, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldd exploit that, much less nurture it. Some may be intelligent and never get a permanently damaging injury, but there are people who smoke that manage to avoid lung cancer. That doesn’t mean we should pay people to smoke.

I’m all for learning an art of self-defense. And I can see the value of sparring, though I have never taken it this far myself. But these things are not done with an audience in mind. Nor does anybody – other than the trainer – make a living off of it. It is a self-satisfying activity not done for someone else’s entertainment. Once you are hitting someone else for money and entertainment, any art is gone.

I am enthralled by the archtypal overtones of this topic. There is something elemental about the sport and our attraction to controlled violence- an artistic display of violence.

How does boxing, which seems to be a western phenomenon compare to the ancient eastern martial arts? The allure of boxing, when talking to Baby Bull and Teddy, seemed an artistic one–prefecting techniques, relying on the self, training, learning patience and self control.

Boxing, like an eastern martial art, some ways is our western version of a martial art which teaches an artistic honing in, refining the body’s strength, its power. If art is a refined version of the sublime, then a boxing match becomes breath-taking, refined display of human skill and control.

That’s overblown and very abstracted.

what about Sue Fox, Laila Ali? the movie Girlfight?

But I love my boxing fitness class. It’s a great sport for women, in terms of learning to feel powerful in one’s body, the sheer joy of the solid impact of my fist on the bag. the way that every single muscle aches gloriously after a workout.

I think Nkay’s argument in the first paragraph is a bit of a slippery slope. Many people do many things that others find objectionable, abhorrent, etc. What’s pornography to one is eroticism to another. What’s barbaric to some is an exuberant embrace of our most primal urges.

I take the view that we all have impulses which our culture and society find objectionable. The challenge is to channel these impulses in a way which does not cause nonconsensual harm to others. So…we can channel physical aggression into sports, sexplay. Not sure if I’m articulating myself to my satisfaction, but there it is.

As far as the institutions of boxing, that’s a whole ‘nother race and class argument.