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	<title>Comments on: Elif Shafak: Voice of a New Turkey</title>
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	<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/</link>
	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:09:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: plnelson</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83943</link>
		<dc:creator>plnelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83943</guid>
		<description>I used to think that Lieberman&#039;s comments  &quot;that Europe is succumbing, demographically and culturally, to an onslaught by Islam, leaving America friendless in its confrontation with Islamic extremism&quot; were hyperbolic.



It&#039;s true that Europe has made massive concessions in matters of free speech to accomodate their rapidly growing minority.  But then I read in the news a few days ago that &lt;b&gt;China&lt;/b&gt; has issued instructions to broadcasters and advertisers and corporations to eliminate any &lt;b&gt;pig&lt;/b&gt; symbols or references in their celebration of the Chinese New year - &lt;b&gt;the year of the pig&lt;/b&gt;!     This to avoid confrontations with Muslims who find such references offensive.



So the Senator may be right that we are the last major place on earth that stands up to such coercion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to think that Lieberman&#8217;s comments  &#8220;that Europe is succumbing, demographically and culturally, to an onslaught by Islam, leaving America friendless in its confrontation with Islamic extremism&#8221; were hyperbolic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that Europe has made massive concessions in matters of free speech to accomodate their rapidly growing minority.  But then I read in the news a few days ago that <b>China</b> has issued instructions to broadcasters and advertisers and corporations to eliminate any <b>pig</b> symbols or references in their celebration of the Chinese New year &#8211; <b>the year of the pig</b>!     This to avoid confrontations with Muslims who find such references offensive.</p>
<p>So the Senator may be right that we are the last major place on earth that stands up to such coercion.</p>
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		<title>By: Murat Altinbasak</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83942</link>
		<dc:creator>Murat Altinbasak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Olcer you make a valid point which is compatible with something I&#039;ve said recently:

&quot;..Indeed, the knife cuts two ways.. No one is immune from some level of culpability.. but first blood was clearly drawn by those who now pass themselves off as victims. What we&#039;ve known all along is affirmed: Armenian genocide is a misnomer.. As I&#039;ve suggested before, we might re-name it the &quot;Anatolian Genocide&quot;, and for once, mourn the Turkish casualties too..&quot;



Olcer, when Muslims die, it&#039;s passed off as &quot;anti-terror&quot; and when Christians die, it&#039;s called either &quot;terrorism&quot; or &quot;genocide&quot;. The western media and the Bush Administration have been priming this engine for many years, and it&#039;s now running full throttle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Olcer you make a valid point which is compatible with something I&#8217;ve said recently:</p>
<p>&#8220;..Indeed, the knife cuts two ways.. No one is immune from some level of culpability.. but first blood was clearly drawn by those who now pass themselves off as victims. What we&#8217;ve known all along is affirmed: Armenian genocide is a misnomer.. As I&#8217;ve suggested before, we might re-name it the &#8220;Anatolian Genocide&#8221;, and for once, mourn the Turkish casualties too..&#8221;</p>
<p>Olcer, when Muslims die, it&#8217;s passed off as &#8220;anti-terror&#8221; and when Christians die, it&#8217;s called either &#8220;terrorism&#8221; or &#8220;genocide&#8221;. The western media and the Bush Administration have been priming this engine for many years, and it&#8217;s now running full throttle.</p>
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		<title>By: brent</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83941</link>
		<dc:creator>brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Allison -



I was in Istanbul in November and it is quite safe, but use typical &quot;american abroad&quot; travel precautions.  I stayed in hostels, and travelled by bus as far as Bergama on the West.  Understand that once you leave tourist spots, people do not speak English.  I recommend picking up a &quot;Teach yourself Turkish&quot; book prior to going.  Having a little knowledge of turkish goes a long way.



Enjoy Turkey if you go. It&#039;s an amazing country.





-brent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allison -</p>
<p>I was in Istanbul in November and it is quite safe, but use typical &#8220;american abroad&#8221; travel precautions.  I stayed in hostels, and travelled by bus as far as Bergama on the West.  Understand that once you leave tourist spots, people do not speak English.  I recommend picking up a &#8220;Teach yourself Turkish&#8221; book prior to going.  Having a little knowledge of turkish goes a long way.</p>
<p>Enjoy Turkey if you go. It&#8217;s an amazing country.</p>
<p>-brent</p>
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		<title>By: olcer</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83940</link>
		<dc:creator>olcer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hmm OTTO, i think it is more just like Europeans killed Jews, Romas by the millions, they still have their racism intact. i think it is more like that. Even though Jews were in europe for more than 1000 years they were not considered european. They were not aryan race. Is that explain why they are &quot;Turkophobia&quot;



for killing  a million people, How about the 3 million Turks who got killed during the same time? Are they considered humans or you just consider Christians as humans?

Something to think about.



Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm OTTO, i think it is more just like Europeans killed Jews, Romas by the millions, they still have their racism intact. i think it is more like that. Even though Jews were in europe for more than 1000 years they were not considered european. They were not aryan race. Is that explain why they are &#8220;Turkophobia&#8221;</p>
<p>for killing  a million people, How about the 3 million Turks who got killed during the same time? Are they considered humans or you just consider Christians as humans?</p>
<p>Something to think about.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: allison</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83939</link>
		<dc:creator>allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83939</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to know if she feels that Istanbul is good place for a foreigner to visit right now. Why or why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to know if she feels that Istanbul is good place for a foreigner to visit right now. Why or why not?</p>
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		<title>By: OliverCranglesParrot</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83938</link>
		<dc:creator>OliverCranglesParrot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83938</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nuribilgeceylan.com/turkeycinemascope1.php?sid=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nuri Bilge Ceylan&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a  href="http://www.nuribilgeceylan.com/turkeycinemascope1.php?sid=1" rel="nofollow">Nuri Bilge Ceylan</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sir Otto</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83937</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Could Europe&#039;s &quot;Turkophobia&quot; have any basis in the slaughter of more than a million Armenians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could Europe&#8217;s &#8220;Turkophobia&#8221; have any basis in the slaughter of more than a million Armenians?</p>
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		<title>By: Sutter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83936</link>
		<dc:creator>Sutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83936</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the links, Nother!



I&#039;d be interested in hearing any reactions Ms. Shafak might have to comments like those made by Joe Lieberman in the current New Yorker:



--- [Quoting]

In another conversation, he told me that he was reading â€œAmerica Alone,â€ a book by the conservative commentator Mark Steyn, which argues that Europe is succumbing, demographically and culturally, to an onslaught by Islam, leaving America friendless in its confrontation with Islamic extremism.



â€œThe thing I quote most from it is the power of demographics, in Europe particularly,â€ Lieberman said. â€œThatâ€™s what struck me the most. But the other part is a kind of confirmation of what I know and what Iâ€™ve read elsewhere, which is that Islamist extremism has an ideology, and itâ€™s expansionist, itâ€™s an aggressive ideology. And the title I took to mean that we Americans will have ultimate responsibility for stopping this expansionism.â€

--- [Done quoting.]



Personally, I think Lieberman takes two ideas that might on their own be true, and draws bad conclusions based on a linguistic sleight-of-hand:  First, there&#039;s the (correct) view that ISLAM is spreading in Europe as a demographic matter.  Second, there&#039;s the idea (I think also true) that ISLAMISTS are expansionist.  Then, somehow that first &quot;ISLAM&quot; gets treated as &quot;ISLAMISM,&quot; such that demographic change in Europe is cause for alarm about expansion (and, apparently, for mobilization of some sort).



So, to me, the questions for someone like Shafak -- particularly in light of debates over &quot;muslim&quot; Turkey&#039;s accession to the EU -- are, How do we respond to those who appear to believe that Western, enlightenment pluralism cannot handle an increasing Muslim presence, and who cannot see the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist, or a terrorist?  And, to the extent that these people have a point that integration will pose challenges (see Holland and Denmark), how can we surmount those challenges?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links, Nother!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested in hearing any reactions Ms. Shafak might have to comments like those made by Joe Lieberman in the current New Yorker:</p>
<p>&#8212; [Quoting]</p>
<p>In another conversation, he told me that he was reading â€œAmerica Alone,â€ a book by the conservative commentator Mark Steyn, which argues that Europe is succumbing, demographically and culturally, to an onslaught by Islam, leaving America friendless in its confrontation with Islamic extremism.</p>
<p>â€œThe thing I quote most from it is the power of demographics, in Europe particularly,â€ Lieberman said. â€œThatâ€™s what struck me the most. But the other part is a kind of confirmation of what I know and what Iâ€™ve read elsewhere, which is that Islamist extremism has an ideology, and itâ€™s expansionist, itâ€™s an aggressive ideology. And the title I took to mean that we Americans will have ultimate responsibility for stopping this expansionism.â€</p>
<p>&#8212; [Done quoting.]</p>
<p>Personally, I think Lieberman takes two ideas that might on their own be true, and draws bad conclusions based on a linguistic sleight-of-hand:  First, there&#8217;s the (correct) view that ISLAM is spreading in Europe as a demographic matter.  Second, there&#8217;s the idea (I think also true) that ISLAMISTS are expansionist.  Then, somehow that first &#8220;ISLAM&#8221; gets treated as &#8220;ISLAMISM,&#8221; such that demographic change in Europe is cause for alarm about expansion (and, apparently, for mobilization of some sort).</p>
<p>So, to me, the questions for someone like Shafak &#8212; particularly in light of debates over &#8220;muslim&#8221; Turkey&#8217;s accession to the EU &#8212; are, How do we respond to those who appear to believe that Western, enlightenment pluralism cannot handle an increasing Muslim presence, and who cannot see the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist, or a terrorist?  And, to the extent that these people have a point that integration will pose challenges (see Holland and Denmark), how can we surmount those challenges?</p>
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		<title>By: nother</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83935</link>
		<dc:creator>nother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83935</guid>
		<description>Ugh!  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=18941&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The bizarre harmony of Istanbul&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh!  <a  href="http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=18941" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The bizarre harmony of Istanbul&#8221;</a></p>
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		<title>By: nother</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/elif-shafak-voice-of-a-new-turkey/#comment-83934</link>
		<dc:creator>nother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=916#comment-83934</guid>
		<description>Ok, I found the hope I was searching for.   I had to go dig back a little further into her columns, a href=&quot;http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=18941&quot;&gt;â€œThe bizarre Harmony of Istanbulâ€&lt;/a&gt;



Elif Safak is writing from a â€œbohemian cafÃ©â€ in Istanbul when a rude ice cream truck driver wants to bully his way through the crowd.



 â€œWe, a bunch of cosmopolitans, of all nationalities and ethnicities, finally bow to the van driver. In 10 minutes, we have all moved our chairs and tables and kindly let him pass. He drives by slowly like a feather drifting in a mellow breeze; an urban lullaby.



  The bohemian cafÃ©, the traditional coffeehouse, foreigners and natives, Koran sellers and cigar sellersâ€¦ It seems as if every incongruity has found a way in which to fuse with others in a bizarre harmony.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I found the hope I was searching for.   I had to go dig back a little further into her columns, a href=&#8221;http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=18941&#8243;&gt;â€œThe bizarre Harmony of Istanbulâ€</p>
<p>Elif Safak is writing from a â€œbohemian cafÃ©â€ in Istanbul when a rude ice cream truck driver wants to bully his way through the crowd.</p>
<p> â€œWe, a bunch of cosmopolitans, of all nationalities and ethnicities, finally bow to the van driver. In 10 minutes, we have all moved our chairs and tables and kindly let him pass. He drives by slowly like a feather drifting in a mellow breeze; an urban lullaby.</p>
<p>  The bohemian cafÃ©, the traditional coffeehouse, foreigners and natives, Koran sellers and cigar sellersâ€¦ It seems as if every incongruity has found a way in which to fuse with others in a bizarre harmony.&#8221;</p>
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