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	<title>Comments on: Europe&#039;s Muslim Immigrants</title>
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	<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/</link>
	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66595</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66595</guid>
		<description>Potter: thanks for the link -- a good piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potter: thanks for the link &#8212; a good piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66594</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66594</guid>
		<description>Good article in the New York Times today &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/international/europe/12suburb.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Immigrant Dreams Mix with Fury Near Paris&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article in the New York Times today <a  href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/international/europe/12suburb.html" rel="nofollow">Immigrant Dreams Mix with Fury Near Paris</a></p>
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		<title>By: leonplays</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66593</link>
		<dc:creator>leonplays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66593</guid>
		<description>I was interested in the idea od hip-hop music as a kind of cross-cultural glue for the marginalized immigrant experience.  Karl Libanus touched on it, but I want to hear lots more.  Europe, Brazil, Asia...hip hop music has been taken in by everyone, with many different interpretations but a common sense of identity.  Can an arabic 18 yr olf in a French ghetto identify more with 2-Pac or Snoop Dogg than French cultural icons?  Why do oppressed people all over identify with the story of Black American ideas of struggle and success?  What message is mainstream hip-hop music selling to the world? I would love a future show on these kinds of questions.  Are you up for it Chris?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested in the idea od hip-hop music as a kind of cross-cultural glue for the marginalized immigrant experience.  Karl Libanus touched on it, but I want to hear lots more.  Europe, Brazil, Asia&#8230;hip hop music has been taken in by everyone, with many different interpretations but a common sense of identity.  Can an arabic 18 yr olf in a French ghetto identify more with 2-Pac or Snoop Dogg than French cultural icons?  Why do oppressed people all over identify with the story of Black American ideas of struggle and success?  What message is mainstream hip-hop music selling to the world? I would love a future show on these kinds of questions.  Are you up for it Chris?</p>
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		<title>By: ChristianHGross</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66592</link>
		<dc:creator>ChristianHGross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66592</guid>
		<description>What I find very mistaken in this debate about Muslims in Europe, and the immigrants of North America is that they are comparing Apples and Oranges.  Let me explain this.



In North America there is one section of society called Mexicans that have been &quot;flooding&quot; America, and Canada.  The same thing has happened with Muslim immigrants in Europe (Turkey, Algeria, etc).  The Mexicans came into America as cheap labor, legally and illegally.  The same thing with the Muslims, as they are the cheap labor.  Mexican&#039;s are very close to the country that they immigrate to, like the Muslims of Europe.



In Europe they said one of the problems of having such close ties to the immigrants is that they never stop being immigrants.  It is fast, easy, and cheap to visit the &quot;mothership&quot;.  Consider what is happening with the Mexican population.  Are they REALLY integrating like other immigrants?  Let&#039;s put the question simpler.  Do the Mexican&#039;s actually consider themselves immigrants?  After all Mexicans, Americans, and Canadians do live on the same continent.  The Mexican population in America has their own channels, government services in Spanish, stores in Spanish, and so on.  I may be defeating my own argument, as the points I mention could illustrate how to live together.  However, there are two big differences; religion, and jobs.



1)  Jobs: America and Canada has jobs.  People are working, by and large the population is prospering.  Imagine if that was not the case.  Imagine if America and Canada had rampant unemployment.  I am not so sure America or Canada would be as &quot;nice&quot;.



2)  Religion: Mexicans, Americans, and Canadians are Christian in nature.  That means they go to Sunday Service, have bells that ring for church, celebrate Christmas and Easter.  The people have similar &quot;lifestyles&quot;.  Imagine if America or Canada had to introduce double lines to separate men and women, celebrate Ramadan, pray many times during the day, have the iman yell out the muslim prayers, and civil law conformed optional to Shiria law.  Remember both Canada and America celebrate Christian, and Jewish religous holidays, why not Muslim?  I do not think American&#039;s or Canadian&#039;s would be quite as tolerant.  In fact I know so.  Recently both Ontario, and Quebec banned the application of Shiria law in civil cases.



My point is that I don&#039;t want to harp of the Muslim faith because in the end they are people like us.  However, Muslims are as odd to us, as we are to them.  And that will take at least a century to figure out.  As much as people don&#039;t want to hear it, it is a clash of civilizations.  The question we must answer is if it will be a &quot;civil&quot; clash or a bloody clash.   I am hoping for civil!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find very mistaken in this debate about Muslims in Europe, and the immigrants of North America is that they are comparing Apples and Oranges.  Let me explain this.</p>
<p>In North America there is one section of society called Mexicans that have been &#8220;flooding&#8221; America, and Canada.  The same thing has happened with Muslim immigrants in Europe (Turkey, Algeria, etc).  The Mexicans came into America as cheap labor, legally and illegally.  The same thing with the Muslims, as they are the cheap labor.  Mexican&#8217;s are very close to the country that they immigrate to, like the Muslims of Europe.</p>
<p>In Europe they said one of the problems of having such close ties to the immigrants is that they never stop being immigrants.  It is fast, easy, and cheap to visit the &#8220;mothership&#8221;.  Consider what is happening with the Mexican population.  Are they REALLY integrating like other immigrants?  Let&#8217;s put the question simpler.  Do the Mexican&#8217;s actually consider themselves immigrants?  After all Mexicans, Americans, and Canadians do live on the same continent.  The Mexican population in America has their own channels, government services in Spanish, stores in Spanish, and so on.  I may be defeating my own argument, as the points I mention could illustrate how to live together.  However, there are two big differences; religion, and jobs.</p>
<p>1)  Jobs: America and Canada has jobs.  People are working, by and large the population is prospering.  Imagine if that was not the case.  Imagine if America and Canada had rampant unemployment.  I am not so sure America or Canada would be as &#8220;nice&#8221;.</p>
<p>2)  Religion: Mexicans, Americans, and Canadians are Christian in nature.  That means they go to Sunday Service, have bells that ring for church, celebrate Christmas and Easter.  The people have similar &#8220;lifestyles&#8221;.  Imagine if America or Canada had to introduce double lines to separate men and women, celebrate Ramadan, pray many times during the day, have the iman yell out the muslim prayers, and civil law conformed optional to Shiria law.  Remember both Canada and America celebrate Christian, and Jewish religous holidays, why not Muslim?  I do not think American&#8217;s or Canadian&#8217;s would be quite as tolerant.  In fact I know so.  Recently both Ontario, and Quebec banned the application of Shiria law in civil cases.</p>
<p>My point is that I don&#8217;t want to harp of the Muslim faith because in the end they are people like us.  However, Muslims are as odd to us, as we are to them.  And that will take at least a century to figure out.  As much as people don&#8217;t want to hear it, it is a clash of civilizations.  The question we must answer is if it will be a &#8220;civil&#8221; clash or a bloody clash.   I am hoping for civil!</p>
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		<title>By: LeeJudt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66591</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeJudt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66591</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not be naive. The Muslims in France are treated better than the Muslims in Algeria or other places in North Africa.



France provides one of the best education systems in the world and if the Muslim Youts would take advantage of it in France (or England) they would be better off. It&#039;s not the fault of the French that the Youts choose not to learn.



In England immigrants from the West Indies, not to mention from India (of Hindu background) do much better than those Muslim immigrants from Pakistan, India, or North Africa.



Europe does not owe them a living.



Immigration is not a right but a priviledge and the immigrant needs to respct the laws and mores of the culture they move to.



When in Rome...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not be naive. The Muslims in France are treated better than the Muslims in Algeria or other places in North Africa.</p>
<p>France provides one of the best education systems in the world and if the Muslim Youts would take advantage of it in France (or England) they would be better off. It&#8217;s not the fault of the French that the Youts choose not to learn.</p>
<p>In England immigrants from the West Indies, not to mention from India (of Hindu background) do much better than those Muslim immigrants from Pakistan, India, or North Africa.</p>
<p>Europe does not owe them a living.</p>
<p>Immigration is not a right but a priviledge and the immigrant needs to respct the laws and mores of the culture they move to.</p>
<p>When in Rome&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KArl KAne</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66590</link>
		<dc:creator>KArl KAne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66590</guid>
		<description>The world is burning and we don&#039;t moov.

In the case of the riots in France i can not let people say it is a problem with muslim immigrants only.

What do you expect from people who are  treated like shit??

Does it have to do with muslims or respect. What is happening when your kid has no education?? does it have to do with buddism, muslim or judaism??

 We are facing a situation where economy,education, racism and culture are all mixing together. The bomb had to explose one day. France is a beautifull country with a heavy past: royalism and colonisation. Do you know many countries,islands the french govenement used or is still running?? Mentality have to change, France has to accept the evolution and the immigrants have to follow the rules and not just come and impose their own tradition and culture without mixing. Till now there were no communication between the governement and us. It only starts now. It is the first step of a long process where France will have to assume his past and buillt the future with those she did colonise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is burning and we don&#8217;t moov.</p>
<p>In the case of the riots in France i can not let people say it is a problem with muslim immigrants only.</p>
<p>What do you expect from people who are  treated like shit??</p>
<p>Does it have to do with muslims or respect. What is happening when your kid has no education?? does it have to do with buddism, muslim or judaism??</p>
<p> We are facing a situation where economy,education, racism and culture are all mixing together. The bomb had to explose one day. France is a beautifull country with a heavy past: royalism and colonisation. Do you know many countries,islands the french govenement used or is still running?? Mentality have to change, France has to accept the evolution and the immigrants have to follow the rules and not just come and impose their own tradition and culture without mixing. Till now there were no communication between the governement and us. It only starts now. It is the first step of a long process where France will have to assume his past and buillt the future with those she did colonise.</p>
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		<title>By: LeeJudt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66589</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeJudt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66589</guid>
		<description>Here is an importat article about France written by a French writer:



http://www.nypress.com/18/45/news&amp;columns/olivierguitta.cfm





NOVEMBER 9, 2005



OLIVIER GUITTA

NEWS &amp; COLUMNS



















&quot;It started outside of Paris with the accidental deaths of two Muslim teenagers supposedly chased by French police. After what&#039;s now two weeks of violence that&#039;s spread throughout the country, about 6,200 cars have been torched and schools, gyms, malls, police stations, businesses, trains and buses have been vandalized as of when this paper goes to print. Police have been shot at in multiple instances. Two people have died, and a woman on crutches was lit on fire.



Many have explained the riots away as a revolt of young, poor and disenfranchised French Muslim citizens lashing out against a state that offers them little, thus whitewashing the extreme violence of the professional hooligans involved. Others, including The New York Times, have blamed French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy for fanning the flames by calling the rioters &quot;scum.&quot;



Sarkozy responded in a November 4 column for Le Monde, writing that &quot;I do not associate the thugs with the huge majority of young from the suburbs who only wish to succeed in life.&quot; He wrote about the 56-year-old man who was beaten to death in front of his wife and daughter for taking a picture and the handicapped woman who was soaked with gas and put on fire. Scum seems a fair name for those who commit such acts.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an importat article about France written by a French writer:</p>
<p><a  href="http://www.nypress.com/18/45/news&#038;columns/olivierguitta.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nypress.com/18/45/news&#038;columns/olivierguitta.cfm</a></p>
<p>NOVEMBER 9, 2005</p>
<p>OLIVIER GUITTA</p>
<p>NEWS &amp; COLUMNS</p>
<p>&#8220;It started outside of Paris with the accidental deaths of two Muslim teenagers supposedly chased by French police. After what&#8217;s now two weeks of violence that&#8217;s spread throughout the country, about 6,200 cars have been torched and schools, gyms, malls, police stations, businesses, trains and buses have been vandalized as of when this paper goes to print. Police have been shot at in multiple instances. Two people have died, and a woman on crutches was lit on fire.</p>
<p>Many have explained the riots away as a revolt of young, poor and disenfranchised French Muslim citizens lashing out against a state that offers them little, thus whitewashing the extreme violence of the professional hooligans involved. Others, including The New York Times, have blamed French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy for fanning the flames by calling the rioters &#8220;scum.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sarkozy responded in a November 4 column for Le Monde, writing that &#8220;I do not associate the thugs with the huge majority of young from the suburbs who only wish to succeed in life.&#8221; He wrote about the 56-year-old man who was beaten to death in front of his wife and daughter for taking a picture and the handicapped woman who was soaked with gas and put on fire. Scum seems a fair name for those who commit such acts.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LeeJudt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66588</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeJudt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66588</guid>
		<description>The troubles in France have to do with both, joblessness caused by the socialist economy that over-regulates business, and with religion given that most muslims don&#039;t want to integrate into the secular French society.



Islamicism isn&#039;t a problem to day, but it will be tomorrow and all the palaver offered by the left isn&#039;t going to hide that fact.



Moreover, given that the French media is rationing report on what is going on there it&#039;s hard to judge the nature of the riots in the last week or so.



My hunch is that they Muslims will keep on buring cars till they run out of vehicles to burn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The troubles in France have to do with both, joblessness caused by the socialist economy that over-regulates business, and with religion given that most muslims don&#8217;t want to integrate into the secular French society.</p>
<p>Islamicism isn&#8217;t a problem to day, but it will be tomorrow and all the palaver offered by the left isn&#8217;t going to hide that fact.</p>
<p>Moreover, given that the French media is rationing report on what is going on there it&#8217;s hard to judge the nature of the riots in the last week or so.</p>
<p>My hunch is that they Muslims will keep on buring cars till they run out of vehicles to burn.</p>
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		<title>By: leftleaningLisa</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66587</link>
		<dc:creator>leftleaningLisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66587</guid>
		<description>I think that the religious issue, while important in Europe and especially France, is not the main thing- else the rioters would be making a religious message out of their anger.



plus, I heard a promo for the show describing people as &quot;Islamic&quot;- Islamic is an adjective that might be used to emphasize a type of architecture, a book, etc. Muslim people are called Muslims</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the religious issue, while important in Europe and especially France, is not the main thing- else the rioters would be making a religious message out of their anger.</p>
<p>plus, I heard a promo for the show describing people as &#8220;Islamic&#8221;- Islamic is an adjective that might be used to emphasize a type of architecture, a book, etc. Muslim people are called Muslims</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66586</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/europes-muslim-immigrants/#comment-66586</guid>
		<description>The big problem is that Muslims don&#039;t drink wine so they don&#039;t chill out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big problem is that Muslims don&#8217;t drink wine so they don&#8217;t chill out.</p>
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