Hi Greta,

Thank you for your comments. I appreciate that very much.

“We’re working on an hour long conversation on the show tonight precisely about “the generation gap between Muslim youth and parents.” Why did that strike you as such an important topic?”

It struck me as an important topic because its a problem that exists. There are many factors that cause that problem, but none the less the problem exists.

“Who would you have had on the show? (And since you won’t be producing that series, who do you think would be invaluable voices on our show?)”

If I were to have chosen that topic, the youth and parents that I would pick out for the show would be from among the immigrant community. Very much among the Indo-pakistani community this exists. I’m sure I would be able to find a good number to help me out with this. Just go to any Muslim community where most of the people are immigrants while thier children are american born.

“If you were to sketch out a layout for the episodes like you did for “one man’s journey…,” what topics would you have covered?”

The way i probably would have layed it out is going through the different stages of life of an American youth and act out the typical things that happen. One of the reasons for the formation of the generation gap is that many times immigrant parents tend to give precedence to the culture instead of following what Islam teaches, while the kids have no real interest in following the culture of the parents, because they cant really appreciate it. The major gap starts when the kids enter thier teens.

Islam welcomes culture. After all what is culture? The cloths we wear, types of food we eat, languages we speak, customs and tradations that are done. The thing that Islam prevents in culture are those things that go against the teachings of Islam. For example, in some parts of India its the custom of people to bend down and touch the feet of the elder. Islamically this wouldnt be allowed b/c bowing and showing respect in that manner is reserved for God, the only One worthy of worship. Other aspects of culture that dont contradict the teachings of Islam would be very much welcomed and encouraged.

“Where we are, the conventional wisdom seems to be that Muslims now in their 20s and 30s are more religious, less US-focused or -friendly, and more radicalized than their parents’ generation. Do these generalizations hold true, in your experience?”

I dont know about “radicalized” or “less US-focused”, but from what I’ve noticed, Muslim youth who had the opportunity to join an MSA (Muslim Students Association, http://www.msanational.com) in high school/college, or youth groups such as YM (Young Muslims, http://www.ymsite.com) and MAS Youth (Muslim American Society) seem to be more aware and practicing of Islam than their parents were. But on a whole, you will find that most Muslim youth are not very practicing. If you were to see them, you wouldnt know they were Muslim unless they were asked. Reason for this is that, many immigrants that came to America in the past…thier first concern wasn’t practicing or teaching Islam (which is one of the duties of a Muslim).

“We’re also thinking about the Israeli-Lebanon conflict, of course, and we’re wondering how the 20-30 somethings approach the conflict differently than the 50-60 somethings do. What’s your view?”

When it comes to atrocities that happen around the world, I think that among American Muslims, the reaction is about equal throughout the different age groups. The elders may feel more because they may have been from that region or know someone who is from that region. I think you can find the younger generation going to rallys more and speaking out more than the older generation.

Speaking of the Israeli-Lebanon conflict…have you heard of the Yahoo Hotzone? It’s an online blog for Kevin Sites, a war reporter. http://hotzone.yahoo.com. The accounts he gives of the people there is quite interesting. Quite a different angle than western media.

Thank you for the comments and questions you asked. If you have anymore, feel free to email me.
- AlBaraa

I went to Frappr Forums, signed up, and responded to your posting on religious taxonomy, but for some reason it wouldn’t accept my name, so it posted me as anonymous. Whatthehell?

“Many “soldiersâ€? were conscripted off the boat from war-torn Europe. Quite a story. it was not so certain that Israel would survive. The General Armistice Agreement signed in 1948 ( Egypt, Jordan, Syria Lebanon) had Arabs still claiming “full belligerant rightsâ€? and denied Israel legitimacy while Israel was hoping for peace. This Arab rejectionism set the stage for wars that followed and continues to today. Context is important.”

Martin Gilbert in his History of Israel writes about something that I heard in Israel: many of the new Jewish conscripts had been liberated from concentration camps in Europe, first German than the allies kept them in camps because they didn’t know what to do with them.

When in Israel these new conscripts knew very little Hebrew and many of them were killed because they didn’t know how to follow directions in order to keep themselves safe from enemy fire.

I believe that Kaniuk in his book on Exodus makes a similar point. He also points out that in many cases a new immigrant lived to survive the war in 1948 only to be killed in the war of 1956 or have his son or grandson killed in the wars of 1967 or 1973.

In some cases three generations served in the army simultaneously.

The fact that Israel survived and thrived under these circumstances is truly an epic achievement.

The trauma of Israel’s War of Independence left a big mark on Israeli’s. Israel was not at all strong and had to scramble for the hardware/supplies. Many “soldiers” were conscripted off the boat from war-torn Europe. Quite a story. it was not so certain that Israel would survive. The General Armistice Agreement signed in 1948 ( Egypt, Jordan, Syria Lebanon) had Arabs still claiming “full belligerant rights” and denied Israel legitimacy while Israel was hoping for peace. This Arab rejectionism set the stage for wars that followed and continues to today. Context is important.

Your posting was very kind. Thank you. And may you find your LIFE OF BRIAN with all speed!

Ah, the Islamist meme. Sometimes it can be difficult deciding which meme is more arrogant: the fundamentalist Christian meme, or the Islamist meme. Indeed, thank you, religion.

I appreciate your acceptance of my apologies. Let us hope that the level of discourse here can rise and rise. And your latest post was very informative–I wasn’t aware of that stat from the 1948 war. Thank you.

I’m a bit disappointed in last night’s show. Not that I didn’t learn anything new – I did. But I can’t fully come to grips with this business of ‘Arab humiliation.’ That’s an ‘old meme’ whose lack of evolution into anything less malignant has stunted the growth and evolution of reason in the region. It’s a meme whose hosting minds refuse to let it evolve. It’s as stubborn as a superstition, and just as closed to rational analysis.
It’s galling that secular Arab governments, who have always manipulatively used the Palestinian plight while barely bothering to help the Palestinians, have unimaginatively ceded the business of memetic evolution to religious minds. Hence Islamism-the-meme-complex is colonizing the minds of the region’s millions of young people.

So, last night we learned that the Islamism meme-complex isn’t monolithic, and that’s a good thing. But if I take anything new away from the regional events of July and now August, it’s that the Iranian-sponsored Shiite variant of the Islamism meme-complex is gaining many more adherents than before, that Al-Quaida will feel forced to react – to reclaim their own memetic stake in the minds of the credulous – and that we’re therefore doomed to many more massacred civilians.
And who knows where they’ll strike next.

Thank you, religion. Thank you so very much.

But I had one of those surreal “small world” moments, when you mentioned a blogger named Mystique from Jeddah Saudi Arabia, who I am familiar with through her blog “The Emancipation of Mystical Thoughts”

Notice that I said “she.” You guys assumed she was a “he” — I imagine because so many people assume that Saudi women are completely muzzled. While that is true of many Saudi women who have had very little opportunity to cultivate any sense of independence, there is a very strong contingent of very strong minded, well educated, well traveled, well read Saudi women. And the young ones are phenomenally rebellious!

In addition to Mystique’s blog, here are links to two other blogs which many readers may find interesting and give a glimpse into the mindset of young Saudi women: Alien Memoirs and A Thought in the Kingdom of Lunacy. Also Sunshine. Following the links around in their blog rolls and comments will lead you to a world that is not well-known in the west!

Old Nick Thanks for your sentiments and that good post and for sticking up for me ( I have found my long lost brother!) I have been arguing so long on this subject that I can take any side as needed so if I feel like I am defending Israel too much, I think there is something wrong here.

Peggy Sue, my own awakening that “hey Palestinians exist and they are suffering” came with reading David Grossman’s “The Yellow Wind” in the New Yorker, many years ago ( later published in book form). I was very troubled by the post 67 war “Greater Israel ” movement to settle and annex what was to be a future Palestinian state. Heated arguments with my mother ensued (as many relatives left for Israel).

Joshua Henderson- I did not expect your apology and so I thank you and accept it. Last night I was in no mood for Israel bashing which avoids the deeper issues regarding liberation. I was reacting only to your 6:25 post last night where you picked a string of negative things to say about Israel as if to blame Israel for all the woes of the entire Arab world. And that is not what those on the program were doing but it was the elephant in the room. It’s too easy to blame Israel. That nasty and continuing habit of blaming Israel for their internal problems is a diversion and seems to perpetuate a psychosis; avoiding looking within for so long, avoiding accepting defeat (calling defeat victory but not being able to believe the lie) and thus perpetuating the next defeat. One thing on top of the other and Arabs/Muslims keep trying to get back to a past glory to escape dealing with the present. Thus the prolonged pain and sinking deeper into humiliation and despair. Arab leaders have taken advantage of this and have used Israel, promoting hatred of “the Zionist entity” not being even able to say “Israel”. Worse, Palestinian suffering has been used to the utmost for political ends

In my own near despair last night I picked a book off my shelf last night to read- Michael Oren’s “Six Days of War, June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East”. ( He would make a great guest). The first chapter on “the Context” gives a good quick summary of events leading up to this war starting from the beginning of Zionism which he defines as “the Jewish people’s movement to build an independent polity in their historical homeland”
That is all Zionism is. What it implied is something else… but that came with awareness gained through pain.

This is different from European colonialism in America, though I appreciate the comparison. Europeans were not returning to America. There has been a constant presence of Jews, albeit in small numbers, in that land now Israel since the beginning (and archeological evidence to prove it.) OTOH, there is no question that there was displacement especially through wars that Jews did not want or precipitate. In 1948 one percent of the population died in the War for Independence. That was 6,000 of 600,000 total population of Jews in Israel in 1948.

Unquestionably, the goal of making Jews normal is laudable. All people, all peoples, ought to feel normal.

And yes, as an American who grew up in a county named after a tribe that were all wiped out by smallpox, I understand the temptation to hypocrisy, and try to challenge it where I see it, including within myself.

I suppose, ultimately, I just find despicable the all-too human trait of ignoring your own evils; surely taking sides in a conflict does not preclude recognizing the faults of your chosen side. Unfortunately, for many people, it does.

I grow heated in exchanges like this. Therefore:

Potter,

I apologize for the phrase “the likes of you”. It was uncalled for and uncivil. I do wish, though, that you had at least acknowledged the truth of the incident I referred to. In any case, I’m sorry.

August 2nd, 2006 at 10:26 pm

Congratulations, you have composed and excellent post. We may disagree on details but not on final goals.

August 2nd, 2006 at 6:14 pm

“As a kid, I recall the movie about the ship, the Exodus, but I had no idea what it was about.�

I saw the movie too as kid.

“Over the years, I have learned a bit more, but it has only been in the past month or so that I have learned of the Zionist terrorists and assassines (sic) to targeted the British, who in fact called groups like Irgun and Lehi terrorist groups and tried and hanged a number of Jewish terrorist. Having learned of such things, knowing of their role as terrorists, I find the comments of some Israelis to be truly ironic.�

However, soon after I saw the movie I also read the novel on which it was based and that got me interested in the history of Israel.

I have since read a lot more books and not just some popular potboilers which Uris’s novel was and is.

I have reached though some very different conclusions from those of Mulpy.
First, the books itself treated the issue of Jewish extremism and did the movie in a more cursory way. Second, the book and the film condemned these extremists and opposed them to the main stream Jewish organizations at the time which sought accommodation with the Arabs in mandate Palestine.

Third, I also learned that the book and definitely the film didn’t portray the actual gravity of the Jewish situation and the gruesome way in which they were treated by the British.

Finally, I also learned that the Jewish terrorists like most terrorist organizations seeking to free themselves from colonial rule at the time targeted military people and not civilians. Many civilians were killed and the efforts by the Irgun actually retarded than advanced the cause of Jewish independence. The conclusion I from my investigations was that terrorism is more often than not counterproductive and had the Irgun taken power Israel would not have become the successful independent State it did become.

Moreover to equate the Irgun to Palestinian terror groups which murder women and children is a sign of ignorance.

On the question of the Exodus I would urge people interested in the actual historical ship to read:

Commander of the Exodus (Paperback)
by Yoram Kaniuk,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080213808X/sr=1-1/qid=1154577878/ref=sr_1_1/002-1371441-5423247?ie=UTF8&s=books

“My question is “do the young people in the region learn of Jewish terrorism in their question to break the barriers to unlimited illegal immigration?�
This is an incoherent question. I don’t know what Mulpy means by “illegal immigration.�

Young Arabs in the region which Mulpy probably knows are indoctrinated to hate Jews, period.

I would invite anyone so radicalized and scandalized by the word ‘Zionism’ to ponder this from Monday’s guest Gadi Taub: “…the original dream of Zionism: to make the life of Jews normal.�
I find it IMPOSSIBLE not to sympathize with this.
We can argue endlessly over the implementation of that dream, but I, a non-Jew and a complete and utter disbeliever in the consciousness-conceit called ‘God’, am willing to consider anyone incapable of similar sympathy potentially ‘anti-Semitic’. (I can’t believe I just said that, but there it is.)

After millennia of pogroms and the Holocaust, Jews didn’t merely ‘deserve’ a state – a homeland to feel ‘normal’ in instead of ever on the verge of beatings and rapes from roving gangs of thugs…and worse – but needed it.

You wanna argue over its placement, or over the decidedly bloody history of the Zionist movement? Fine, you can.
But if you blame today’s Jews for those events of the previous century – and, if you’re an American living off the fat of land whose original inhabitants were massacred by your ancestors – then you’re a hypocrite. There’s no other word for it.

Think it over.

Even Yasser Arafat admitted that the Zionist genie was long gone from the bottle. The Israel-the-nation-state ship has sailed, and it although it might yet be sunk, it ain’t ever coming back to its port of origin. That war is over. And good riddance.

Demonizing Israelis is as counterproductive, pointless, and misguided as demonizing their Islamist opponents. Last I checked, everyone in that region were full human beings, and deserving of human respect, no matter how we might deplore the actions of some of them.

And last I checked, my frequent correspondent Potter is the least fanatical pro-Zionist American who frequents these pages.
You wanna vent your fury at zealous defenders of Israel? There’s plenty of bylines representing that attitude here, but Potter isn’t one of them. In fact, Potter consistently argues with the zealots, trying to apply reason over the predictable expressions of defensive anger, scorn, and endlessly dreary and wearying accusations of anti-Semitism.
And Potter doesn’t merely criticize Israel either: she writes with compassion concerning the Palestinians – which many of her correspondents seem incapable of.
My proof lies in the various threads she’s graced with her byline.

It is possible to be pro-Israeli without being an inhuman blood-sucking monster.
Believe it or not.

I would suggest that apologies are in order.

If we are going to get out of this mess I think it is going to be women who put the kibosh on fundamentalism.

Yes, I suppose it is easier, more of a balm to the spirit, to place your hopes in something imaginary, than to do the difficult work of honing your hopes to fit the complex, challenging, often frustrating, but ultimately, REAL shape of humankind.

How about, just for an example, liberation from Jewish militias who wear masks and harass Palestinian schoolchildren and beat the christian peacekeepers who are acting as human shields to those schoolchildren?

Real noble, real brave.

How true! Victims though the Jews unquestionably have been, they are playing the role of victimizer now.

Over the years, I have learned a bit more, but it has only been in the past month or so that I have learned of the Zionist terrorists and assassines to targeted the British, who in fact called groups like Irgun and Lehi terrorist groups and tried and hanged a number of Jewish terrorist.

Having learned of such things, knowing of their role as terrorists, I find the comments of some Israelis to be truly ironic.

My question is “do the young people in the region learn of Jewish terrorism in their question to break the barriers to unlimited illegal immigration?”