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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming is Not an &#8220;Environmental Problem&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/</link>
	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-5100</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 07:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-5100</guid>
		<description>elphaba: the main reason I cited permaculture is because it advocates and designs many, many energy-wise ideas beyond the purely agricultural -- like fruit-growing yards instead of lawns and like your solar collectors over parking lots -- which could make you into a hero among the permaculture club should they have not yet heard the idea!  
I suppose I might have offered you something more substantial than the google results, but it was late.  Sorry!
So, again I will advocate giving it a close look.  I used to have a big hardcover permaculture book, but had to give it back to its real owner, and now can&#039;t recall its title or author.  I do know, however, that permaculture is a big enough (and valued enough) movement to have spawned a magazine or two.
Anyway, good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>elphaba: the main reason I cited permaculture is because it advocates and designs many, many energy-wise ideas beyond the purely agricultural &#8212; like fruit-growing yards instead of lawns and like your solar collectors over parking lots &#8212; which could make you into a hero among the permaculture club should they have not yet heard the idea!<br />
I suppose I might have offered you something more substantial than the google results, but it was late.  Sorry!<br />
So, again I will advocate giving it a close look.  I used to have a big hardcover permaculture book, but had to give it back to its real owner, and now can&#8217;t recall its title or author.  I do know, however, that permaculture is a big enough (and valued enough) movement to have spawned a magazine or two.<br />
Anyway, good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: elphaba</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-5097</link>
		<dc:creator>elphaba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 06:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-5097</guid>
		<description>Nikos:  I have heard of permaculture and that is what I am aiming for, I think.  The hard thing is to get a market for products.  Then of course there is the danger that if there is a good market for small diameter timber, all of it will be stripped, leaving bare hillsides with streams of mud flowing down into the streams and rivers.  Last spring I took the kids on a trip up the Oregon coast, going through the Roseburg area.  I saw thousands of acres of stripped hillsides and rivers running mud.

PeterB:  Yes mass transit has problems in much of the US.  I would love to see expansion of bicycle travel.  I rode a bicycle through a crowded Chinese city with a guide once and it was one of my great experiences, though not a particularly safe one.  
I think improving gas mileage and emmissions is critical.  I did hear a good arguement from a libertarian sort of person that a big gas tax would be the most effective way because the market would decide the most efficient vehicles.  
Rising gas prices has the most effect on what people drive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikos:  I have heard of permaculture and that is what I am aiming for, I think.  The hard thing is to get a market for products.  Then of course there is the danger that if there is a good market for small diameter timber, all of it will be stripped, leaving bare hillsides with streams of mud flowing down into the streams and rivers.  Last spring I took the kids on a trip up the Oregon coast, going through the Roseburg area.  I saw thousands of acres of stripped hillsides and rivers running mud.</p>
<p>PeterB:  Yes mass transit has problems in much of the US.  I would love to see expansion of bicycle travel.  I rode a bicycle through a crowded Chinese city with a guide once and it was one of my great experiences, though not a particularly safe one.<br />
I think improving gas mileage and emmissions is critical.  I did hear a good arguement from a libertarian sort of person that a big gas tax would be the most effective way because the market would decide the most efficient vehicles.<br />
Rising gas prices has the most effect on what people drive.</p>
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		<title>By: Climate Crisis Coalition - Daily News &#187; Daily News</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-5083</link>
		<dc:creator>Climate Crisis Coalition - Daily News &#187; Daily News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-5083</guid>
		<description>[...]  target=&quot;_blank&quot; title=&quot;Permanent Link: Global Warming is Not an â€œEnvironmental Problemâ€?&quot; href=&quot;http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/&quot;&gt;â€?Global Warming is Not     an â€œEnvironmental Problemâ€? Five c [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  target=&#8221;_blank&#8221; title=&#8221;Permanent Link: Global Warming is Not an â€œEnvironmental Problemâ€?&#8221; href=&#8221;http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/&#8221;&gt;â€?Global Warming is Not     an â€œEnvironmental Problemâ€? Five c [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter B</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4919</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4919</guid>
		<description>elphaba:
I think mass transportation is an issue that would take... honestly I don&#039;t know what it would take but it&#039;s a long haul.  First of all, the US is so wide, that -other than major inner cities- mass transportation would become difficult to maintain.  I think due to geographic conditions, we have some difficulties maintaining a good form of public transportation.  

The first step in my opinion would be to reconstruct all major non-highway road ways and create cycle paths on all of these major road ways and more rail trails.  I witnessed this in Nagoya Japan, and I felt a whole lot more comfortable riding there... 
There are some drawbacks of course.  I know many people who drive over 15 miles or more to get to work... up and down hills and what not... As far as Massachusetts is concerned, I make a plan when I have summer classes.  I drive from my house to the Bedford Bike Depot, and bike from there to either Alewife Station or Porter Square and lock my bike.  Thats about 20 miles car + bike, and I use my bike for about 12 miles or so.  

On this matter of bicycles- does anyone know a good store in Massachusetts that sells inexpensive bicycles?  It seems that more and more stores are catering to the people who want to buy $800 bikes.  I could buy a good bike in Japan for about $100 flat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>elphaba:<br />
I think mass transportation is an issue that would take&#8230; honestly I don&#8217;t know what it would take but it&#8217;s a long haul.  First of all, the US is so wide, that -other than major inner cities- mass transportation would become difficult to maintain.  I think due to geographic conditions, we have some difficulties maintaining a good form of public transportation.  </p>
<p>The first step in my opinion would be to reconstruct all major non-highway road ways and create cycle paths on all of these major road ways and more rail trails.  I witnessed this in Nagoya Japan, and I felt a whole lot more comfortable riding there&#8230;<br />
There are some drawbacks of course.  I know many people who drive over 15 miles or more to get to work&#8230; up and down hills and what not&#8230; As far as Massachusetts is concerned, I make a plan when I have summer classes.  I drive from my house to the Bedford Bike Depot, and bike from there to either Alewife Station or Porter Square and lock my bike.  Thats about 20 miles car + bike, and I use my bike for about 12 miles or so.  </p>
<p>On this matter of bicycles- does anyone know a good store in Massachusetts that sells inexpensive bicycles?  It seems that more and more stores are catering to the people who want to buy $800 bikes.  I could buy a good bike in Japan for about $100 flat!</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4886</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4886</guid>
		<description>elphaba: if you haven&#039;t already discovered the concept that goes under the curious name of &#039;permaculture&#039;, then click this link and begin to explore:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;q=permaculture</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>elphaba: if you haven&#8217;t already discovered the concept that goes under the curious name of &#8216;permaculture&#8217;, then click this link and begin to explore:<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;q=permaculture" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;q=permaculture</a></p>
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		<title>By: elphaba</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4883</link>
		<dc:creator>elphaba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4883</guid>
		<description>Last weekend I took my kids to Portland to the Science Museum.  I decided to try the mass transit system.  The kids like busses and Portland is supposed to have a good transit system.  It took us about 45 minutes going to the museum in the morning and a little over an hour coming back in the afternoon.  We had long walks in the rain and long cold waits.  I could have driven to the museum in less than 15 minutes.  Next time we drive.

Mass transit is going to continue to be a dead proposition until the systems  are made more competitive timewise with travel by car.  I know the Sacramento area in California, gutted an excellent bus system to support light rail.

There is a proposal by Arnold in California to get solar panels on every roof, or at least that is the talk.  It would certainly make sense.  Thousands of acres are going under subdivisions, we could at least generate some electricity from the roofs.  What about the parking lots at the big box strip malls?  They could even provide shade.

Educate and make incentives for developers to orient houses with south facing windows with the proper overhangs.  That&#039;s passive solar gain.  Its simple and it works.

What about some sort of wood burner that creates electricty and burns cleanly?  I live on 100 acres with 80+ acres that need thinning to make it a healthy forest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last weekend I took my kids to Portland to the Science Museum.  I decided to try the mass transit system.  The kids like busses and Portland is supposed to have a good transit system.  It took us about 45 minutes going to the museum in the morning and a little over an hour coming back in the afternoon.  We had long walks in the rain and long cold waits.  I could have driven to the museum in less than 15 minutes.  Next time we drive.</p>
<p>Mass transit is going to continue to be a dead proposition until the systems  are made more competitive timewise with travel by car.  I know the Sacramento area in California, gutted an excellent bus system to support light rail.</p>
<p>There is a proposal by Arnold in California to get solar panels on every roof, or at least that is the talk.  It would certainly make sense.  Thousands of acres are going under subdivisions, we could at least generate some electricity from the roofs.  What about the parking lots at the big box strip malls?  They could even provide shade.</p>
<p>Educate and make incentives for developers to orient houses with south facing windows with the proper overhangs.  That&#8217;s passive solar gain.  Its simple and it works.</p>
<p>What about some sort of wood burner that creates electricty and burns cleanly?  I live on 100 acres with 80+ acres that need thinning to make it a healthy forest.</p>
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		<title>By: A little yellow bird</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4786</link>
		<dc:creator>A little yellow bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4786</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nikos&quot;: No, it&#039;s a real story. I&#039;m saying my brother noted what is good and workable about windmill 2.0. BTW, BoingBoing is both serious and fun. They are uber-geeks who blog beyond my ken on serious hack issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nikos&#8221;: No, it&#8217;s a real story. I&#8217;m saying my brother noted what is good and workable about windmill 2.0. BTW, BoingBoing is both serious and fun. They are uber-geeks who blog beyond my ken on serious hack issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4776</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4776</guid>
		<description>ALYB: I immediately noted all three of those too-good-to-be-true advantages.  And then thought: can they really DO this?  They seem serious.
How cool it would be!
(Or is boing boing a joke site?)
Oh, and would&#039;ya order me a vodka and soda, pleeze?  With lemon, not lime.
Thanks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALYB: I immediately noted all three of those too-good-to-be-true advantages.  And then thought: can they really DO this?  They seem serious.<br />
How cool it would be!<br />
(Or is boing boing a joke site?)<br />
Oh, and would&#8217;ya order me a vodka and soda, pleeze?  With lemon, not lime.<br />
Thanks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: A little yellow bird</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4775</link>
		<dc:creator>A little yellow bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4775</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nikos&quot;: I should have saved, and then posted, my brother&#039;s e-mailed reaction to that article. He&#039;s a professional conservationist, and he pointed out threee objections usually made to windmill power: something like, 1. ugly (these&#039;d be out of sight); 2. mah homies, da birds, won&#039;t be made into canary sausage way up there; and 3. no noise issue way up there. Psyched! Sorted! Groovalicious! Oh, barkeep, another round for the good guys, s&#039;il vous plait...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nikos&#8221;: I should have saved, and then posted, my brother&#8217;s e-mailed reaction to that article. He&#8217;s a professional conservationist, and he pointed out threee objections usually made to windmill power: something like, 1. ugly (these&#8217;d be out of sight); 2. mah homies, da birds, won&#8217;t be made into canary sausage way up there; and 3. no noise issue way up there. Psyched! Sorted! Groovalicious! Oh, barkeep, another round for the good guys, s&#8217;il vous plait&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-4774</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4774</guid>
		<description>ALYB: thanks for the link!  
My first reaction was &#039;this must be an early April fools joke&#039;.
My second was: &#039;this is so bizarre it might just be true!&#039;
Either way, it&#039;s well worth the little time it takes to read it. 
I therefore enthusiastically second ALYB&#039;s recommendation:
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALYB: thanks for the link!<br />
My first reaction was &#8216;this must be an early April fools joke&#8217;.<br />
My second was: &#8216;this is so bizarre it might just be true!&#8217;<br />
Either way, it&#8217;s well worth the little time it takes to read it.<br />
I therefore enthusiastically second ALYB&#8217;s recommendation:<br />
<a href="http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: A little yellow bird</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4753</link>
		<dc:creator>A little yellow bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4753</guid>
		<description>Flying windmills in the jetstream! http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html (Found at BoingBoing.net)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flying windmills in the jetstream! <a href="http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004052.html</a> (Found at BoingBoing.net)</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4664</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4664</guid>
		<description>metolius8:  
If you go about 10 posts back, you&#039;ll see that I was talking about wind turbines as a home power generation option.  I&#039;m not advocating &#039;wind farms&#039;.  I AM advocating non-fossil fuel power production -- naively perhaps, yes, but hopefully, and seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>metolius8:<br />
If you go about 10 posts back, you&#8217;ll see that I was talking about wind turbines as a home power generation option.  I&#8217;m not advocating &#8216;wind farms&#8217;.  I AM advocating non-fossil fuel power production &#8212; naively perhaps, yes, but hopefully, and seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: metolius8</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4659</link>
		<dc:creator>metolius8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4659</guid>
		<description>Nikos:
You weren&#039;t listening.  There isn&#039;t enough land and water on which to place wind turbines to replace the energy (and products) produced by Oil.  It&#039;s over man...get used to it and prepare for a world without oil.  Or go Jimminy Cricket skipping on wishing on star that things weren&#039;t they way they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikos:<br />
You weren&#8217;t listening.  There isn&#8217;t enough land and water on which to place wind turbines to replace the energy (and products) produced by Oil.  It&#8217;s over man&#8230;get used to it and prepare for a world without oil.  Or go Jimminy Cricket skipping on wishing on star that things weren&#8217;t they way they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4656</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4656</guid>
		<description>Sometimes I wish the biblical Rapture-hoax were true.  That way at least the zillion Revelation-believers would fly up to the clouds, leaving the rest of us to dismanlte the God-gave-the-earth-to-humans paradgim that the corporatocracy uses to justify its parasitism.
But no, it&#039;s a hoax.
Wind power, baby!  NOW!
(What happened to GreenTagGuru?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I wish the biblical Rapture-hoax were true.  That way at least the zillion Revelation-believers would fly up to the clouds, leaving the rest of us to dismanlte the God-gave-the-earth-to-humans paradgim that the corporatocracy uses to justify its parasitism.<br />
But no, it&#8217;s a hoax.<br />
Wind power, baby!  NOW!<br />
(What happened to GreenTagGuru?)</p>
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		<title>By: metolius8</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4654</link>
		<dc:creator>metolius8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4654</guid>
		<description>Though the program ended the issue rolls on.  Two nights ago I attended a speech by James Howard Kunstler (the long emergency) and he wakes us up to the rality that things are going to be VERY different in the future (near future, folks).  We need, as citizens and a world society, to prepare for that reality, all the while doing what we can to minimize our negative impact on the globe.  Oil has already depleted to the point where it can&#039;t continue support the existing users, let a lone a world where the Chinese are only just begining to use it.  Oil has peaked as an energy source and there is noting we can do, including raiding the Alaska refuge, to change that reality.  In fact, postphoning it only has the negative impact of preventing us from getting ready for a world with out oil.

Falicies:  We can &#039;tech&#039; our way out of this; we can conserve our way out of this; we can win some cosmic lottery and get out of this....

While we consider what it is we are doing to the earth, we had better get ready for what it is doing to us, as we run out of the energy that drives the world as we know it.  Capitalism/trade/transportation/business/life will look different is a post oil world.  Everyone is encouraged to consider how they will offer value and community in the new world order.

All of this presumes that the bombs don&#039;t drop.  But hey, I am optimistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though the program ended the issue rolls on.  Two nights ago I attended a speech by James Howard Kunstler (the long emergency) and he wakes us up to the rality that things are going to be VERY different in the future (near future, folks).  We need, as citizens and a world society, to prepare for that reality, all the while doing what we can to minimize our negative impact on the globe.  Oil has already depleted to the point where it can&#8217;t continue support the existing users, let a lone a world where the Chinese are only just begining to use it.  Oil has peaked as an energy source and there is noting we can do, including raiding the Alaska refuge, to change that reality.  In fact, postphoning it only has the negative impact of preventing us from getting ready for a world with out oil.</p>
<p>Falicies:  We can &#8216;tech&#8217; our way out of this; we can conserve our way out of this; we can win some cosmic lottery and get out of this&#8230;.</p>
<p>While we consider what it is we are doing to the earth, we had better get ready for what it is doing to us, as we run out of the energy that drives the world as we know it.  Capitalism/trade/transportation/business/life will look different is a post oil world.  Everyone is encouraged to consider how they will offer value and community in the new world order.</p>
<p>All of this presumes that the bombs don&#8217;t drop.  But hey, I am optimistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Awfki</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4648</link>
		<dc:creator>Awfki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4648</guid>
		<description>Was it just me or was the host attacking Michael Shellenberger? He seemed really argumentative with Shellenberger and more relaxed with everyone else. Is there some grudge going on that we don&#039;t know about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was it just me or was the host attacking Michael Shellenberger? He seemed really argumentative with Shellenberger and more relaxed with everyone else. Is there some grudge going on that we don&#8217;t know about?</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4637</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4637</guid>
		<description>Huh?  Who sez it&#039;s &#039;insupportable&#039;?

Speaking of words, today I heard the prez say: &#039;ar-tick-you-late&#039;.  Din&#039;t no he noo that 1.
Guess he dint get thru Yale completely uncantaminated, eh?
Leest you noo inglanders dint make him into a librel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh?  Who sez it&#8217;s &#8216;insupportable&#8217;?</p>
<p>Speaking of words, today I heard the prez say: &#8216;ar-tick-you-late&#8217;.  Din&#8217;t no he noo that 1.<br />
Guess he dint get thru Yale completely uncantaminated, eh?<br />
Leest you noo inglanders dint make him into a librel.</p>
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		<title>By: A little yellow bird</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4633</link>
		<dc:creator>A little yellow bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4633</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nikos&quot;: Wait, so does this mean you&#039;re going all anarcho-capitalist on me now, eschewing your insupportable socialism worship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nikos&#8221;: Wait, so does this mean you&#8217;re going all anarcho-capitalist on me now, eschewing your insupportable socialism worship?</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4626</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4626</guid>
		<description>ALYB: on selling back to the grid, yes, just so.  This could be why I never hear this idea from anyone but me: because the Detriot Energies, Consolidated Edisons, and Puget Sounds Energies of the nation won&#039;t tolerate thier electrical production monopolies to be diffused into the hands of their plebian consumers.
Scoundrels.
All the more reason to agitate for it, hmmm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALYB: on selling back to the grid, yes, just so.  This could be why I never hear this idea from anyone but me: because the Detriot Energies, Consolidated Edisons, and Puget Sounds Energies of the nation won&#8217;t tolerate thier electrical production monopolies to be diffused into the hands of their plebian consumers.<br />
Scoundrels.<br />
All the more reason to agitate for it, hmmm?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter B</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4624</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4624</guid>
		<description>I think the idea of &#039;nature&#039; needs to be redefined before we can get the message across to others that our environment is exaulted.  I&#039;m thinking of the negative connotations to &#039;nature&#039;: such as the wilderness, and the depictions of nature of which we can not understand.  

There is a common misunderstanding I believe that we are above nature, in ways that it is justified that we can do what ever we see fit to make our lives perfect.  The environment, migratory birds and herds, other animals and what not, seem to get second rates, and Americans get a range of rates usually higher than nature, as if there is a caste and it is including nature (with humans at the top).  

Maybe what we need is better, more intuitive technology that gives us energy without the hazards of disrupting nature.  But in my opinion this is a multi-step process, one that involves finding inovations to get energy without &#039;harming&#039; nature.  I believe that wind turbines do not harm nature, though they do disrupt it.  Oil, Gas and Chemical power plants on the other hand harm nature, and it would be best to tackle this issue first, while keeping in mind that there many issues on all sides of this debate (including social issues).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea of &#8216;nature&#8217; needs to be redefined before we can get the message across to others that our environment is exaulted.  I&#8217;m thinking of the negative connotations to &#8216;nature&#8217;: such as the wilderness, and the depictions of nature of which we can not understand.  </p>
<p>There is a common misunderstanding I believe that we are above nature, in ways that it is justified that we can do what ever we see fit to make our lives perfect.  The environment, migratory birds and herds, other animals and what not, seem to get second rates, and Americans get a range of rates usually higher than nature, as if there is a caste and it is including nature (with humans at the top).  </p>
<p>Maybe what we need is better, more intuitive technology that gives us energy without the hazards of disrupting nature.  But in my opinion this is a multi-step process, one that involves finding inovations to get energy without &#8216;harming&#8217; nature.  I believe that wind turbines do not harm nature, though they do disrupt it.  Oil, Gas and Chemical power plants on the other hand harm nature, and it would be best to tackle this issue first, while keeping in mind that there many issues on all sides of this debate (including social issues).</p>
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		<title>By: A little yellow bird</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4623</link>
		<dc:creator>A little yellow bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4623</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nikos&quot;: Your concern for the birds is touching! I&#039;ve suggested to my professional-conservationist brother (www.scenichudson.org) a sort of radio frequency repellent for us birdbrains to keep our tailfeathers out of those big wind farm turbines in major migration paths. The same could go for these small individual units you describe. BTW, you could not only squeeze your own free, fresh juice out of the wind (and sun!), but even sell excess back to the grid, thereby making your meter run backwards, and producing a small profit for yourself--it is done by some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nikos&#8221;: Your concern for the birds is touching! I&#8217;ve suggested to my professional-conservationist brother (www.scenichudson.org) a sort of radio frequency repellent for us birdbrains to keep our tailfeathers out of those big wind farm turbines in major migration paths. The same could go for these small individual units you describe. BTW, you could not only squeeze your own free, fresh juice out of the wind (and sun!), but even sell excess back to the grid, thereby making your meter run backwards, and producing a small profit for yourself&#8211;it is done by some.</p>
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		<title>By: ghomsy</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4622</link>
		<dc:creator>ghomsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4622</guid>
		<description>Why be so hard on Shellenberger?  He&#039;s not really &quot;contradicting&quot; himself, though he may have strange choices of words sometimes.

He&#039;s just advocating a progressive approach to environmental politics, rather than a regressive one.  He argues that human nature and the free market have rejected regressive approaches as being restrictive, and that a progressive approach based on innovation and progress is what we need to get people on board a sustainable environmental agenda.

That&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why be so hard on Shellenberger?  He&#8217;s not really &#8220;contradicting&#8221; himself, though he may have strange choices of words sometimes.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s just advocating a progressive approach to environmental politics, rather than a regressive one.  He argues that human nature and the free market have rejected regressive approaches as being restrictive, and that a progressive approach based on innovation and progress is what we need to get people on board a sustainable environmental agenda.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4621</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4621</guid>
		<description>re: WIND POWER
GreenTagGuru, please comment on what follows.

For decades on American farms, small windmills pumped water from wells into cisterns.  It&#039;s likely we&#039;ve all seen these rusty multi-bladed eyesores on drives through the countryside.  Then, in the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s, another kind of eyesore began defacing the (already ugly suburban) landscape where the farms once spread: TV antennas fixed to chimneys.  What&#039;s the connection?
Well, if we want to drastically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, why not provide an installment-cost tax write-off for power-generating wind-turbines atop the millions of American roofs?

And why am I the only person I&#039;ve ever heard suggest this?  
It can&#039;t be unthinkable, can it?
Think of how satisfying it would be to generate your own electricity, for free.  All you&#039;d have to do is install some sort of bird (and bat) guard. 

GreenTagGuru, can this happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: WIND POWER<br />
GreenTagGuru, please comment on what follows.</p>
<p>For decades on American farms, small windmills pumped water from wells into cisterns.  It&#8217;s likely we&#8217;ve all seen these rusty multi-bladed eyesores on drives through the countryside.  Then, in the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s, another kind of eyesore began defacing the (already ugly suburban) landscape where the farms once spread: TV antennas fixed to chimneys.  What&#8217;s the connection?<br />
Well, if we want to drastically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, why not provide an installment-cost tax write-off for power-generating wind-turbines atop the millions of American roofs?</p>
<p>And why am I the only person I&#8217;ve ever heard suggest this?<br />
It can&#8217;t be unthinkable, can it?<br />
Think of how satisfying it would be to generate your own electricity, for free.  All you&#8217;d have to do is install some sort of bird (and bat) guard. </p>
<p>GreenTagGuru, can this happen?</p>
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		<title>By: peoplestank</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4620</link>
		<dc:creator>peoplestank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4620</guid>
		<description>I wonder how such new thinking can be applied to the population issues, which no one seems to want to discuss in regards to global warming and sustainable development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how such new thinking can be applied to the population issues, which no one seems to want to discuss in regards to global warming and sustainable development.</p>
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		<title>By: Coffee01</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4619</link>
		<dc:creator>Coffee01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4619</guid>
		<description>I definitely think there is a need to rethink the environmental movement and try to get the public and politicians to take climate change seriously. But I thought Shellenberger&#039;s remarks were off the mark. He sounded more like he wanted to discredit the environmental movement of the past 4 decades than try to take it in a new direction. He sounds more like a right-winger trying to throw sand in the gears. Maybe there is no conspiracy, only true belief in the market. Shellenberger and others believe that the profit motive must be paramaount for environmental protection to succeed. I&#039;d propose that love of place, spiritual connections to nature, and desire for personal security is the motivation that will work for people, as it has for many of environmentalism&#039;s triumphs. That is entirely missing from his critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely think there is a need to rethink the environmental movement and try to get the public and politicians to take climate change seriously. But I thought Shellenberger&#8217;s remarks were off the mark. He sounded more like he wanted to discredit the environmental movement of the past 4 decades than try to take it in a new direction. He sounds more like a right-winger trying to throw sand in the gears. Maybe there is no conspiracy, only true belief in the market. Shellenberger and others believe that the profit motive must be paramaount for environmental protection to succeed. I&#8217;d propose that love of place, spiritual connections to nature, and desire for personal security is the motivation that will work for people, as it has for many of environmentalism&#8217;s triumphs. That is entirely missing from his critique.</p>
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		<title>By: Rycke</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4617</link>
		<dc:creator>Rycke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4617</guid>
		<description>Baggot, who are you asking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baggot, who are you asking?</p>
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		<title>By: sidewalker</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4616</link>
		<dc:creator>sidewalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4616</guid>
		<description>A great spike in oil prices--$200/300 a barrel (which isn&#039;t unlikely with the growth in China and India and continued over-consumption in OECD countries (especialy the US &amp; Canada)--will reframe the environmental movement. Unfortunately, it will also reframe the social security issue. With such a rise, especially if sudden because of fear in the market, many companies will go under. Stores will not be able to get their usual deliveries. People will be without jobs, food, heating and desparate. The chaos in New Oreleans may seem like a coxswain next to a sumo wrestler. A less consumptive way of life at this point might seem like a lightbulb--or should I say candle--in the dark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great spike in oil prices&#8211;$200/300 a barrel (which isn&#8217;t unlikely with the growth in China and India and continued over-consumption in OECD countries (especialy the US &amp; Canada)&#8211;will reframe the environmental movement. Unfortunately, it will also reframe the social security issue. With such a rise, especially if sudden because of fear in the market, many companies will go under. Stores will not be able to get their usual deliveries. People will be without jobs, food, heating and desparate. The chaos in New Oreleans may seem like a coxswain next to a sumo wrestler. A less consumptive way of life at this point might seem like a lightbulb&#8211;or should I say candle&#8211;in the dark.</p>
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		<title>By: baggott</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4615</link>
		<dc:creator>baggott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4615</guid>
		<description>Well stated. I live in Grand Isle-- where are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well stated. I live in Grand Isle&#8211; where are you?</p>
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		<title>By: hannah</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4614</link>
		<dc:creator>hannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4614</guid>
		<description>Farmers are capitalists too.  There is a difference between capitalism (investing capital to make a return, which can happen at many scales-- and farming is no exception).  The kind of supranational megacorporation control of resources and decision making that passes for capitalism in our culture.  This is not capitalism as it has ever been understood.  Most of us are not capitalists in any real sense of the word.  Yes, some of us have money invested in banks or pension funds, and that money is invested for us.  Some of us may own stock directly, but unless you own huge amounts of stock, you have no control over how it is used.  Your money is being used for you.  

My power company (I grew up in Oregon, live in Vermont now)  offers optional &quot;cow power&quot; at slightly higher than its regular rates.  This supports locally produced methane-generated electrical power, and helps keep our dairy farmers in business.  I am an active supporter of the small windfarms currently being proposed in our state.  I buy local food, often from the producer, at  most one step away--and the supermarket in our village is starting to carry local, because people are asking for it.  This means less fuel used to produce and transport food, and our community is becoming more interwoven.  We have an active re-use network-- keeping stuff out of landfills and providing materials to low income people and nonprofit organizations.  I belong to a local credit union.

And yes, I am a capitalist in the smallest sense of the word, being partly self-employed, working at home using my investment in the very computer I am typing on.  I work part-time, and am able to work at home some of that time. I walk to and shop at my locally owned bakery, bookstore, market, cafe, hardware store.  I know my town officers by name.  And they know me, because I go to meetings, and work with other members of my community to make decisions about what our community is going to look like and how it will function.  I know what issues affect my community, and I know that they are part of my grandchildren&#039;s future, whether they live here or on the other coast (some do).  

These are personal choices about consumption and how I live that can make a difference.  I think that is what this is about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farmers are capitalists too.  There is a difference between capitalism (investing capital to make a return, which can happen at many scales&#8211; and farming is no exception).  The kind of supranational megacorporation control of resources and decision making that passes for capitalism in our culture.  This is not capitalism as it has ever been understood.  Most of us are not capitalists in any real sense of the word.  Yes, some of us have money invested in banks or pension funds, and that money is invested for us.  Some of us may own stock directly, but unless you own huge amounts of stock, you have no control over how it is used.  Your money is being used for you.  </p>
<p>My power company (I grew up in Oregon, live in Vermont now)  offers optional &#8220;cow power&#8221; at slightly higher than its regular rates.  This supports locally produced methane-generated electrical power, and helps keep our dairy farmers in business.  I am an active supporter of the small windfarms currently being proposed in our state.  I buy local food, often from the producer, at  most one step away&#8211;and the supermarket in our village is starting to carry local, because people are asking for it.  This means less fuel used to produce and transport food, and our community is becoming more interwoven.  We have an active re-use network&#8211; keeping stuff out of landfills and providing materials to low income people and nonprofit organizations.  I belong to a local credit union.</p>
<p>And yes, I am a capitalist in the smallest sense of the word, being partly self-employed, working at home using my investment in the very computer I am typing on.  I work part-time, and am able to work at home some of that time. I walk to and shop at my locally owned bakery, bookstore, market, cafe, hardware store.  I know my town officers by name.  And they know me, because I go to meetings, and work with other members of my community to make decisions about what our community is going to look like and how it will function.  I know what issues affect my community, and I know that they are part of my grandchildren&#8217;s future, whether they live here or on the other coast (some do).  </p>
<p>These are personal choices about consumption and how I live that can make a difference.  I think that is what this is about.</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/global-warming-is-not-an-environmental-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-4613</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=395#comment-4613</guid>
		<description>I ran across this quote from E. OI Wilson today coincidentally: 

&quot;Perhaps the time has come to cease calling it the &quot;environmentalist&quot; view, as though it were a lobbying effort outside the mainstream of human activity, and to start calling it the real-world view.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran across this quote from E. OI Wilson today coincidentally: </p>
<p>&#8220;Perhaps the time has come to cease calling it the &#8220;environmentalist&#8221; view, as though it were a lobbying effort outside the mainstream of human activity, and to start calling it the real-world view.&#8221;</p>
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