I don’t know if anyone is still following this thread, but I find it a nice mix of looking at an ideal while trying to find ways to take action in the current reality.Tyring to define a cultural ethos that includes more than the might dollar, while trying to uproot the invasive weeds in our tribal garden.

Nikos – I’m sorry to hear that you are skeptical of fundamentalists. I know many people with very strong ‘fundamentalist’ beliefs. Usually, we can find some ground upon which can agree that those in less fortunate circumstances need to be aided by those more fortunate. And usually we can agree to make room for people of different religious views. I find it s possible to appeal to some of the higher sensibilities of their spirituality and get them to let go of their evangelism. Or to at least separate their call to evangelize at a personal level while tolerating at a societal level. I get there by not expecting them to change their beliefs while not allowing them to assume that their beliefs can claim dominion over the hearts and souls of others. I maintain a fair amount of cautiousness in my expectations of others while maintaining a hope that I can work with even those whose perspectives are as far from mine as possible.

As for the question of the intellectually honest atheist, you’re getting at a fundamental question about the nature of humanity. It seems that no matter how much we’ve been misled by people supposedly guided by their God, we still want someone who believes in a higher power. Atheism is uninspiring. Its as though we can’t see the purpose doing anything that isn’t immediately self-serving without the concept of a higher power. Or perhaps its more about the concept of an eternal existence. If we are currently living in one incarnation of our souls, we might have to face the very long-term ramifications of our actions and so, we are motivated to be a bit more careful. But if this is it. 80 or so years and we’re done, why care about others or what comes after us?

nother, you say: “To me the irony is that those of us who are in this pre-existing tribe and who are grasping onto to old identities, are living just fine in the multi-cultural reality outside our door. We work with and interact with other cultures all day, but then we go home and watch TV and listen to talk radio spew fear and before you know it, our rhetoric is out of tune with our reality.”

I think this irony varies from person to person and geographically. There are plenty of people out there who harbor in their daily hearts fear and hatred of those considered ‘others’. Racism is alive and well. Misogyny is alive and well. I’ve heard caucasion men complain about their jobs being taken by minorities. I watch the CVS manager eye the black shopper more suspiciously than the white one. But it is true that these issues are usually resolved on the personal level. You can’t legislate love and eradicate fear with tax breaks. But leaders can impact the cultural ethos and legislate some things to address damaging behaviors. Once a culture is permeated from the top down with principles of tolerance it becomes more possible for neighbors to help each other transform their fears and hatreds.

Potter, you ask what we can do and observe: “In very weak opposition we have a relatively disorganized but inclusive multi-ethnic group of liberals of varying degrees, yes with some elites and intellectuals, but probably mostly working class and/ but no articulated unifying ideology”

So, let’s define and articulate an ideology and devise an action plan to create the country we want to live in. Its that or keep complaining about things.

A leadership model that I find inspiring is that of Robert Greenleaf coined ‘servant leadership’ (see more here: http://www.greenleaf.org/leadership/servant-leadership/What-is-Servant-Leadership.html). My favorite part of the definition is the test for successful leadership:

“The best test, and difficult to administer , is: do those served grow as persons; do they, while being served, become healthier, wiser, freer, more autonomous, more likely themselves to become servants? And, what is the effect on the least privileged in society; will they benefit, or, at least, will they not be further deprived?â€?”

We could combine that model with the truth force style of Mohatma Gandhi. Speaking truth to power. This means a devotion to pursuit of the truth. Something sorely lacking in in the current state of US affairs. (I wholeheartedly support David Weinstein’s suggested investigation into voter fraud and disenfranchisement.)

But all the rhetoric in the world doesn’t create change if it isn’t accompanied by action. I’ve been appalled by the lack of street protests to the plethora of scandalous happenings since the 2000 elections. I have to admit, that I haven’t known where I can put my energies effectively. Maybe a relentless series of town hall meetings to talk to people personally about building a vision for our future and creating action plans to get there.

Suggestions?

The Democrats had the most difficult job because negative adds tend to turn off their voters, but it is very clear that a candidate must respond back to negative adds or they will be penalized as being cowardly. Republicans resonded best to negative adds, so they didn’t have to worry about turning off their constituents.

There was a lot of talk about the independent voter last election. I think these studies would have been very relevent in strategizing for both parties.

I am personally hoping that John McCain will make another run for the Presidency. I would vote for him. It seems to me that being moderate has become a very radical position indeed.

Agents’ visit chills UMass Dartmouth senior

Allison, you touched on a very important issue.

The part where you mention, “Disney movies and Abercrombie and Fitch” is a corporate lifestyle. A consumer lifestyle. It’s true that it lacks the religious aspect of meaning and higher power. Capitalism can reduce man to just a number.

What’s funny is that some of the members of this administration, although not all, has this exact type of vision for the world. PURE CAPITALISM! Well, there’s a problem. The republican’s have signed a deal with the “devil” per se. What I mean is this…

The republican spin machine has been very careful in not angering the corporate groups by being seen as anti-capitalistic. This whole “War in Christmas” is worded in a way that makes the Christians seem the victims. For example, FOX can’t come out and say, “The Corporation has monetary and profit motives above all else!” NO, FOX can’t say that because that would seem anti-capitalistic, Again, the right-wing can’t afford to loose big businesses votes because all they would be left with would be the fundamental christians (cultural votes). That’s not enough. THEY NEED THE BIG CONGLOMERATES.

So, the republican party is toeing the line. What is funny is that they are actually creating the exact consumerism that fuels the change. This is the same force they fear is marginalizing the fundamental view point. The corporation will always cater to the lowest common denominator, i.e. make the most profits possible. They way the big business see it is that selling to *EVERYONE* is better than just selling to *just the Christians.” The republicans find themselves in a catch-22.

Think about it. If the corporations were some how forced by republican law to cater to just one special interest group. Sooner or later they would vote those in power, out!

This is why the phrase “Happy Holidays” was created. It is supposed to be inclusive to everyone; Jews, Buddhist, Agnostics, Muslims, etc…Not just Christians. The Christians are jealous. They want to go back to that dangling universe of the 50′s where womanizing, racism, and whites were in power. The classical traditionalist like Bill Oreilly hate accommodating new people/cultures into this country because they have deluded themselves that it belongs to them, and them alone.

Sorry Bill! It’s about Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness for ALL! Not just one group!

You might not be able to tell. But I’m not anti-capitalistic. But I am FOR RESTRAINTS on capitalism (environmental and civil rights related)!

One of the problems that the christians (as well as other fundamental religious groups) have is that they have created a monster that they will not be able to control. So, the christians will suffer because they befriended the very entity that contradicts their view points. This is why the socialistic Christians of the UK voted for social reform back in 1945 after the war. This was a counter to the days of the Guided Age — Which we are entering into again today.

But the moment the Christians open their mouths and say, “Capitalism must be restrained” they will be labeled Socialists, even the dreaded communist! Egads!

Ha ha! That will be the day that Bill Oreilly will be called a communist! He’d run and hide! Who knows? Many someday his greed will get to his conscience…