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	<title>Comments on: Language Evolution in the Digital Age</title>
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	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Dvortygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75234</link>
		<dc:creator>Dvortygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75234</guid>
		<description>Wiktionary is not unaware of these issues.  Here are my two cents.  Please also see http://omegawiki.blogspot.com/ for the other essay.



Intuitively, we all know what a word is. A word is a unit of language conveying some meaning. But how do we decide what is a real word? We look in a dictionary, of course. What do we do if we&#039;re writing a dictionary?



We are caught between cataloging what is &quot;right&quot; (prescriptivism) and what is actually done (descriptivism). The pendulum has lately swung towards descriptivism, and I would say that there are some good reasons for that trend. The language that is spoken on the streets is not the same language that is written in academia. Somebody learning a language may genuinely need help sorting out the less proper terms in it.



Take, for instance, colloquialisms such as &quot;irrespective&quot; and &quot;humongous&quot;, and all the phrases that have gotten squished together into amalgams like &quot;gotcha&quot; and &quot;woulda&quot;. Most people would readily agree that these words do not belong in a college thesis paper.



What is the scrupulous lexicographer to do? Fortunately, it is not a strict either-or question, especially in a work not substantially limited by size. In an electronic resource, we can put them in, anyway. To satisfy the formal sorts, the perscriptivists, we can then place a prominent usage note in the entry, explaining just why a writer might wish to use caution with the term: ginormous is a colloquial term, regarded by many to be something less than a proper word. Thus, the reader is both informed and cautioned.



That&#039;s fine for most of the slang and jargon, but we have another problem. People keep making up new words. My sister in law coined the term &quot;muskaroon&quot; to mean generically any small, furry creature that scurries past too quickly to identify. Squirrels, chipmunks, gophers, and presumably rabbits would all qualify. So we have a unit of language with a symbol and a meaning. The trouble is, if you walked up to people on the street and inquired whether there were muskaroons in the area, nobody would be able to answer who hadn&#039;t talked lately to my sister in law, and that is a small minority of people, indeed.



The test here is usage. Can we demonstrate that the word is in common use? Now, depending on the character of the dictionary, we can define the rules various ways. Was it used by so many independent sources? Did anybody important (such as Shakespeare or a prominent academic journal) publish the word?



Generally, we also try to find and present examples of the term in what is called &quot;running text&quot;. That means that it is in a paragraph, and isn&#039;t only used as somebody&#039;s nickname, say. The edge is still a fuzzy one. Are the citations in traditional print sources, such and books and journals, or are they sprinkled in a couple blogs and forums? Was the word used in only one limited context, or in a variety of sources and over a period of years? These sorts of tests can help to weed out many of the more questionable entries. At some point, though, it may yet come down to a judgment call, if not on whether a word is real, then on how to apply the rules. In these cases, I advise the users of a dictionary to bring a healthy dose of skepticism with them, to recall that even dictionaries are not infallible, and to trust at the very least that these decisions are made by real people who care for the project.



If, knowing all that, you find you don&#039;t like the way &quot;they&quot; are running the place, you are invited to do a better job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wiktionary is not unaware of these issues.  Here are my two cents.  Please also see <a  href="http://omegawiki.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://omegawiki.blogspot.com/</a> for the other essay.</p>
<p>Intuitively, we all know what a word is. A word is a unit of language conveying some meaning. But how do we decide what is a real word? We look in a dictionary, of course. What do we do if we&#8217;re writing a dictionary?</p>
<p>We are caught between cataloging what is &#8220;right&#8221; (prescriptivism) and what is actually done (descriptivism). The pendulum has lately swung towards descriptivism, and I would say that there are some good reasons for that trend. The language that is spoken on the streets is not the same language that is written in academia. Somebody learning a language may genuinely need help sorting out the less proper terms in it.</p>
<p>Take, for instance, colloquialisms such as &#8220;irrespective&#8221; and &#8220;humongous&#8221;, and all the phrases that have gotten squished together into amalgams like &#8220;gotcha&#8221; and &#8220;woulda&#8221;. Most people would readily agree that these words do not belong in a college thesis paper.</p>
<p>What is the scrupulous lexicographer to do? Fortunately, it is not a strict either-or question, especially in a work not substantially limited by size. In an electronic resource, we can put them in, anyway. To satisfy the formal sorts, the perscriptivists, we can then place a prominent usage note in the entry, explaining just why a writer might wish to use caution with the term: ginormous is a colloquial term, regarded by many to be something less than a proper word. Thus, the reader is both informed and cautioned.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine for most of the slang and jargon, but we have another problem. People keep making up new words. My sister in law coined the term &#8220;muskaroon&#8221; to mean generically any small, furry creature that scurries past too quickly to identify. Squirrels, chipmunks, gophers, and presumably rabbits would all qualify. So we have a unit of language with a symbol and a meaning. The trouble is, if you walked up to people on the street and inquired whether there were muskaroons in the area, nobody would be able to answer who hadn&#8217;t talked lately to my sister in law, and that is a small minority of people, indeed.</p>
<p>The test here is usage. Can we demonstrate that the word is in common use? Now, depending on the character of the dictionary, we can define the rules various ways. Was it used by so many independent sources? Did anybody important (such as Shakespeare or a prominent academic journal) publish the word?</p>
<p>Generally, we also try to find and present examples of the term in what is called &#8220;running text&#8221;. That means that it is in a paragraph, and isn&#8217;t only used as somebody&#8217;s nickname, say. The edge is still a fuzzy one. Are the citations in traditional print sources, such and books and journals, or are they sprinkled in a couple blogs and forums? Was the word used in only one limited context, or in a variety of sources and over a period of years? These sorts of tests can help to weed out many of the more questionable entries. At some point, though, it may yet come down to a judgment call, if not on whether a word is real, then on how to apply the rules. In these cases, I advise the users of a dictionary to bring a healthy dose of skepticism with them, to recall that even dictionaries are not infallible, and to trust at the very least that these decisions are made by real people who care for the project.</p>
<p>If, knowing all that, you find you don&#8217;t like the way &#8220;they&#8221; are running the place, you are invited to do a better job.</p>
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		<title>By: herbert browne</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75233</link>
		<dc:creator>herbert browne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 08:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75233</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m questioning one of the opening premises in this thread... namely:

..&quot;That mythical tome that determines Whatâ€™s a Real Word. Because our casual references to and belief in The Dictionary seem to continue unhindered by the emergence of Wiktionary, (etc)..&quot; //   ...&quot;Weâ€™re wondering how true this is, and why, if it is true, the dictionary hasnâ€™t suffered the crumbled-faith fate of other powerful top-down institutions (like The Paper of Record, The Encyclopedia, or The TV News)..&quot;-



Is the Dictionary really a &quot;top-down&quot; institution? Or is it&#039;s alleged linear quality more &quot;back-to-front&quot; (ie historical)? It seems that dictionary construction has a loop system which takes (has always taken) usage into account- and is then altered, amended, added onto, etc. ie it&#039;s being &quot;topped up&quot;.  No one really dictated, in true &quot;top-down&quot; fashion, what&#039;s what... did they? My guess is that dictionaries are more a product of listeners than of commanders...  ^..^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m questioning one of the opening premises in this thread&#8230; namely:</p>
<p>..&#8221;That mythical tome that determines Whatâ€™s a Real Word. Because our casual references to and belief in The Dictionary seem to continue unhindered by the emergence of Wiktionary, (etc)..&#8221; //   &#8230;&#8221;Weâ€™re wondering how true this is, and why, if it is true, the dictionary hasnâ€™t suffered the crumbled-faith fate of other powerful top-down institutions (like The Paper of Record, The Encyclopedia, or The TV News)..&#8221;-</p>
<p>Is the Dictionary really a &#8220;top-down&#8221; institution? Or is it&#8217;s alleged linear quality more &#8220;back-to-front&#8221; (ie historical)? It seems that dictionary construction has a loop system which takes (has always taken) usage into account- and is then altered, amended, added onto, etc. ie it&#8217;s being &#8220;topped up&#8221;.  No one really dictated, in true &#8220;top-down&#8221; fashion, what&#8217;s what&#8230; did they? My guess is that dictionaries are more a product of listeners than of commanders&#8230;  ^..^</p>
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		<title>By: silby</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75232</link>
		<dc:creator>silby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75232</guid>
		<description>If the digital age has made a significant contribution to language, it is in 1337sp33k and geek/gamer/hacker talk, which my friends and I are known to speak out loud alongside standard English. Just as with any in-group, geeks and gamers develop auxiliary vocabularies and grammar rules to enable them to talk about their experiences. The extension of 1337 from a typed to a spoken vocabulary seems to indicate that Internet-based communities can become real-world communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the digital age has made a significant contribution to language, it is in 1337sp33k and geek/gamer/hacker talk, which my friends and I are known to speak out loud alongside standard English. Just as with any in-group, geeks and gamers develop auxiliary vocabularies and grammar rules to enable them to talk about their experiences. The extension of 1337 from a typed to a spoken vocabulary seems to indicate that Internet-based communities can become real-world communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlazolteotl</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75231</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlazolteotl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75231</guid>
		<description>For a fun diversion, you might go to YouTube and check out the O RLY owl videos that have been posted.  They are pastiches of pictures of owls with captions in leet/geek speak.  For some reasonl, I find some of them very amusing, and shows how localized that kind of slang can be in a particular subculture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a fun diversion, you might go to YouTube and check out the O RLY owl videos that have been posted.  They are pastiches of pictures of owls with captions in leet/geek speak.  For some reasonl, I find some of them very amusing, and shows how localized that kind of slang can be in a particular subculture.</p>
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		<title>By: herbert browne</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75230</link>
		<dc:creator>herbert browne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75230</guid>
		<description>Veryoldhippy is dope...

After they asked the machine to parse &quot;Time flies like an arrow&quot;, did they sucker-punch it with &quot;Fruit flies like old bananas&quot;?

Q: How much do the visual cues (as well as inflections) matter to the &quot;New-language learners&quot;? A child, watching two people conversing, will learn a lot by judging the responses to certain words, as well as their placement within a sentence, or phrase, I&#039;m guessing. Machines may have a steep learning curve in this dept. (the HAL 2000 notwithstanding)...   ^..^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veryoldhippy is dope&#8230;</p>
<p>After they asked the machine to parse &#8220;Time flies like an arrow&#8221;, did they sucker-punch it with &#8220;Fruit flies like old bananas&#8221;?</p>
<p>Q: How much do the visual cues (as well as inflections) matter to the &#8220;New-language learners&#8221;? A child, watching two people conversing, will learn a lot by judging the responses to certain words, as well as their placement within a sentence, or phrase, I&#8217;m guessing. Machines may have a steep learning curve in this dept. (the HAL 2000 notwithstanding)&#8230;   ^..^</p>
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		<title>By: Aviendha</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75229</link>
		<dc:creator>Aviendha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75229</guid>
		<description>I distinctly remember a certain conversation at school. I was with a group of friends in the art room, and one of them came in wearing a shirt with a certain word on it. The entire conversation that day centered around the definition of that word, because the person wearing it insisted that it was not dirty while the rest of the people in the room were convinced that it was. After much debate, a vote, and a reference to Urban Dictionary, we found definition #6 agreed with our vote, and so it was final. Personally, I think that anybody outside of Canterbury High School, maybe even the people outside of the artsy-fartsy clique at Canterbury High School, would have no idea what that word ment in normal conversaion. However, the way in which it was used, to that particualr audience, gave it meaning. That is what a word is: the way an audience will recieve it. As the audience of these words, we can decide how we are going to recieve it. We have influence on what those words mean. However, one person saying that a box is a round reflective stucture hung in the middle of a room while people dance does not turn &quot;box&quot; into a synomyn for &quot;disco ball&quot;. The entire audience has to agree, and it is diffucult to persuade populations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I distinctly remember a certain conversation at school. I was with a group of friends in the art room, and one of them came in wearing a shirt with a certain word on it. The entire conversation that day centered around the definition of that word, because the person wearing it insisted that it was not dirty while the rest of the people in the room were convinced that it was. After much debate, a vote, and a reference to Urban Dictionary, we found definition #6 agreed with our vote, and so it was final. Personally, I think that anybody outside of Canterbury High School, maybe even the people outside of the artsy-fartsy clique at Canterbury High School, would have no idea what that word ment in normal conversaion. However, the way in which it was used, to that particualr audience, gave it meaning. That is what a word is: the way an audience will recieve it. As the audience of these words, we can decide how we are going to recieve it. We have influence on what those words mean. However, one person saying that a box is a round reflective stucture hung in the middle of a room while people dance does not turn &#8220;box&#8221; into a synomyn for &#8220;disco ball&#8221;. The entire audience has to agree, and it is diffucult to persuade populations.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijtable</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75228</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijtable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75228</guid>
		<description>travellingmind, while I agree in spirit, I don&#039;t think outdated styles of communication are dying. Like the theatre or opera, maybe they&#039;ve simply become more special and more niche.



As for the value of the older ways, I think it all depends on the meaning of language - utilitarian or artistic (descriptive VS. prescriptive above).



I learned penmanship, but I don&#039;t really use it. Is it necessary for my effective communication (when my main tool of communication is keyboard)? There is also the question - is the fall of letter-writing necessarily a bad thing? I communicate more often, and in more detail, with my cross-country relatives now than I did ten years ago. I can attribute some of my lack of formality to frequency of communication and



Artistically speaking, maybe it&#039;s not all that bad that language is evolving faster now. As geographically regional dialects slowly die, maybe &quot;technological dialects&quot; are rising.



So I may lament that letter-writing is dying, but I also celebrate the increased democratization and diversification of the English language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>travellingmind, while I agree in spirit, I don&#8217;t think outdated styles of communication are dying. Like the theatre or opera, maybe they&#8217;ve simply become more special and more niche.</p>
<p>As for the value of the older ways, I think it all depends on the meaning of language &#8211; utilitarian or artistic (descriptive VS. prescriptive above).</p>
<p>I learned penmanship, but I don&#8217;t really use it. Is it necessary for my effective communication (when my main tool of communication is keyboard)? There is also the question &#8211; is the fall of letter-writing necessarily a bad thing? I communicate more often, and in more detail, with my cross-country relatives now than I did ten years ago. I can attribute some of my lack of formality to frequency of communication and</p>
<p>Artistically speaking, maybe it&#8217;s not all that bad that language is evolving faster now. As geographically regional dialects slowly die, maybe &#8220;technological dialects&#8221; are rising.</p>
<p>So I may lament that letter-writing is dying, but I also celebrate the increased democratization and diversification of the English language.</p>
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		<title>By: travellingmind</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75227</link>
		<dc:creator>travellingmind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75227</guid>
		<description>I sincerely hope that the written record, such as dictionaries does not go the way of the dinosaur or other things.  I have seen a trend start in schools where young children are being taught their education from behind a computer, where penmanship and grammar aren&#039;t a priority anymore in mainstream education.  It is a shame I believe that this is happening, and these kids may not know how to write a real letter, but will excel at e-mailing or texting their friends in lieu of this outdate style of communication as it seems.  I&#039;m all for technology making our lives easier, but when it crosses the line of killing something like the written word, or books, then I have to say we need to take notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sincerely hope that the written record, such as dictionaries does not go the way of the dinosaur or other things.  I have seen a trend start in schools where young children are being taught their education from behind a computer, where penmanship and grammar aren&#8217;t a priority anymore in mainstream education.  It is a shame I believe that this is happening, and these kids may not know how to write a real letter, but will excel at e-mailing or texting their friends in lieu of this outdate style of communication as it seems.  I&#8217;m all for technology making our lives easier, but when it crosses the line of killing something like the written word, or books, then I have to say we need to take notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75226</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75226</guid>
		<description>Greta just used the word &quot;wikify&quot; A new verb?  Love it.



http://www.radioopensource.org/putting-the-wiki-to-bed/



This weekend in the NYTimes, William Safire in his essay on &quot;netroots&quot;  quotes Jerome Armstrong ( of MyDD)  who uses the word &quot;morpheme&quot; to describe &quot;netroots&quot;.



A &quot;morpheme&quot;  is &quot;an indivisible, meaningful element of a word, like &lt;i&gt;net&lt;/i&gt; in &#039;network&#039; substituting  for the first syllable of grass roots, the word in century-old political jargon&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greta just used the word &#8220;wikify&#8221; A new verb?  Love it.</p>
<p><a  href="http://www.radioopensource.org/putting-the-wiki-to-bed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.radioopensource.org/putting-the-wiki-to-bed/</a></p>
<p>This weekend in the NYTimes, William Safire in his essay on &#8220;netroots&#8221;  quotes Jerome Armstrong ( of MyDD)  who uses the word &#8220;morpheme&#8221; to describe &#8220;netroots&#8221;.</p>
<p>A &#8220;morpheme&#8221;  is &#8220;an indivisible, meaningful element of a word, like <i>net</i> in &#8216;network&#8217; substituting  for the first syllable of grass roots, the word in century-old political jargon&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: OpenVortex</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/language-evolution-in-the-digital-age/#comment-75225</link>
		<dc:creator>OpenVortex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=571#comment-75225</guid>
		<description>Are we going to lose &quot;too&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we going to lose &#8220;too&#8221;?</p>
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