Comments on: Legal Limbo at Guantanamo? http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/ Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:09:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: galoot http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85672 galoot Sat, 31 Mar 2007 19:17:32 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85672 Great show and one of the most important issues around. I would love to hear a follow up now that David Hicks, the Australian (who is actually entitled to British Citizenship but shamefully denied it by the UK government so far) has made a bizarre deal to get out of Guantanamo. He signed a statement saying that he was not mistreated during his detention - clearly this is not true. I would love to hear legal experts pick this agreement apart (if we can even see it). We are way beyond Orwellian here. Great show and one of the most important issues around. I would love to hear a follow up now that David Hicks, the Australian (who is actually entitled to British Citizenship but shamefully denied it by the UK government so far) has made a bizarre deal to get out of Guantanamo. He signed a statement saying that he was not mistreated during his detention – clearly this is not true. I would love to hear legal experts pick this agreement apart (if we can even see it). We are way beyond Orwellian here.

]]> By: Tom B http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85671 Tom B Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:05:28 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85671 The war on terrorism may 'ostensibly' be about 'spreading democracy', but democracy is a notoriously slippery word. (1) Does it simply mean rule by the 51 percent over the 49 percent? (2) Does 'democracy' mean rule by law? (If so, halachah, or sharia, or English common law, or Nazi statutes like the Nuremberg Laws?) (3) Does democracy mean driving a car and watching Brittney Spears on one's high definition TV? (4) Does democracy mean electing folks to go and pass laws favorable to their campaign contributors? --- And as for constitutionally guaranteed rights: whose Constitution, and whose interpretation of that Constitution? And if the (US) Constitution allows slavery (as it did before 1868) can one defend slavery as consistent with the Constitution? Is there any higher law than statutes or a basic law (i.e. constitution)? IMHO, legal does NOT equal moral -- but lots of folks argue otherwise. It ultimately resolves back to moral suasion, political negotiation, and issues of power or powerlessness... The war on terrorism may ‘ostensibly’ be about ‘spreading democracy’, but democracy is a notoriously slippery word. (1) Does it simply mean rule by the 51 percent over the 49 percent? (2) Does ‘democracy’ mean rule by law? (If so, halachah, or sharia, or English common law, or Nazi statutes like the Nuremberg Laws?) (3) Does democracy mean driving a car and watching Brittney Spears on one’s high definition TV? (4) Does democracy mean electing folks to go and pass laws favorable to their campaign contributors? — And as for constitutionally guaranteed rights: whose Constitution, and whose interpretation of that Constitution? And if the (US) Constitution allows slavery (as it did before 1868) can one defend slavery as consistent with the Constitution? Is there any higher law than statutes or a basic law (i.e. constitution)? IMHO, legal does NOT equal moral — but lots of folks argue otherwise. It ultimately resolves back to moral suasion, political negotiation, and issues of power or powerlessness…

]]> By: Andrew Kinney http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85670 Andrew Kinney Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:34:58 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85670 Lumiere-- Good point about where our system originates. And to hammer the point home: the war on terror is, ostensibly, about "spreading democracy." Well, wouldn't one (very effective) way of doing this be the application of constitutionally guaranteed rights (like habeas corpus) to those unlucky enough not to fully civilized American citizens? Lumiere–

Good point about where our system originates. And to hammer the point home: the war on terror is, ostensibly, about “spreading democracy.” Well, wouldn’t one (very effective) way of doing this be the application of constitutionally guaranteed rights (like habeas corpus) to those unlucky enough not to fully civilized American citizens?

]]> By: Lumière http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85669 Lumière Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:16:59 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85669 Nick Casey was good guest... he made Dwight Sulllivan (also good) admit that study was flawed. Of the 400 released only 38 were mistakes. 90% is a high success rate- think anyone will bat 900 this season? Collateral damage is a fact of modern war - What bothers me about Casey's ilk: The cornerstone of western thought is progress - when you advance a system - even war - you don’t go back The question for Casey is why don’t we use the better system? If we can’t convict these people: does that say the system is no good or are these people innocent? His answer is that traditionally the tribunal has worked fine – how would we know? & we won’t extend our system beyond our borders – why not ? that’s where our system came from !!!! this troubles me and I’m a cynic ! Nick

Casey was good guest… he made Dwight Sulllivan (also good) admit that study was flawed.

Of the 400 released only 38 were mistakes.

90% is a high success rate- think anyone will bat 900 this season?

Collateral damage is a fact of modern war -

What bothers me about Casey’s ilk:

The cornerstone of western thought is progress – when you advance a system – even war – you don’t go back

The question for Casey is why don’t we use the better system?

If we can’t convict these people: does that say the system is no good or are these people innocent?

His answer is that traditionally the tribunal has worked fine – how would we know?

& we won’t extend our system beyond our borders – why not ?

that’s where our system came from !!!!

this troubles me and I’m a cynic !

]]> By: Nick http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85668 Nick Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:12:05 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85668 <i>“Do you believe in collateral damage?”</i> — Lee Casey, while arguing with Dwight Sullivan that it’s just fine and dandy to sweep up innocent civilians along with those deemed by our military as “unlawful combatants”. What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? That if you accept the euphemism “collateral damage” in place of “slaughtered innocents” the various combatants raging through neighborhoods are magically absolved from culpability for the deaths of the civilians? No wonder the name ‘<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%ADma_Wormtongue" rel="nofollow">Wormtongue</a>’ sprang to mind when Casey began his dissembling. It is vital – albeit a near impossibility – that Americans take care to never empower with the reins of government such deceitful ideologues as these neocon Bushies who have disgraced our standing in the world for the past 6+ years. This was a show that was largely exemplary of ROS at its best. But Lumiere is right that it needed another hour at least. I've got a toasty woodstove I'd like to stick Casey's shameless feet into. “Do you believe in collateral damage?”

— Lee Casey, while arguing with Dwight Sullivan that it’s just fine and dandy to sweep up innocent civilians along with those deemed by our military as “unlawful combatants”.

What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? That if you accept the euphemism “collateral damage” in place of “slaughtered innocents” the various combatants raging through neighborhoods are magically absolved from culpability for the deaths of the civilians?

No wonder the name ‘Wormtongue’ sprang to mind when Casey began his dissembling.

It is vital – albeit a near impossibility – that Americans take care to never empower with the reins of government such deceitful ideologues as these neocon Bushies who have disgraced our standing in the world for the past 6+ years.

This was a show that was largely exemplary of ROS at its best. But Lumiere is right that it needed another hour at least. I’ve got a toasty woodstove I’d like to stick Casey’s shameless feet into.

]]> By: Lumi̬re http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85667 Lumi̬re Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:58:18 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85667 Good show - needs 2 or 3 more hours ! Good show Рneeds 2 or 3 more hours !

]]> By: Matt http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85666 Matt Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:46:59 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85666 As a reference to the point made about law students studying the Guantanamo issue/enemy combatants/military tribunals.... The Massachusetts Bar Exam was just taken by my wife last week. One of the essay questions had to do with the Military Commissions Act, and what rights citizens and non-citizens have with regard to habeas corpus. The analysis and learning has already begun... As a reference to the point made about law students studying the Guantanamo issue/enemy combatants/military tribunals….

The Massachusetts Bar Exam was just taken by my wife last week. One of the essay questions had to do with the Military Commissions Act, and what rights citizens and non-citizens have with regard to habeas corpus. The analysis and learning has already begun…

]]> By: Lumière http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85665 Lumière Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:46:51 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85665 This is very telling: The lawyers offering the substandard system have knowledge of the greater system and feel no compunction about the slide in standards – their standards There is your banality of evil.... This is very telling:

The lawyers offering the substandard system have knowledge of the greater system and feel no compunction about the slide in standards – their standards

There is your banality of evil….

]]> By: ckule http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85664 ckule Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:46:20 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85664 Bear in mind that in addition to the some 400 still left in Guantanamo there are thousands of detainees held by the U.S. in Iraq. In the past, habeas corpus was overridden, for example, in the case of the Indian Wars because the internees were placed on reservations and the territory was, effectively, completely occupied. What are we going to do about the foreign detainees if we withdraw? Bring them with us? And then not afford any sort of habeas corpus review? We have really lost our way by not affording Geneva recognition and, moreover, affording the usual protections. Bear in mind that in addition to the some 400 still left in Guantanamo there are thousands of detainees held by the U.S. in Iraq. In the past, habeas corpus was overridden, for example, in the case of the Indian Wars because the internees were placed on reservations and the territory was, effectively, completely occupied. What are we going to do about the foreign detainees if we withdraw? Bring them with us? And then not afford any sort of habeas corpus review? We have really lost our way by not affording Geneva recognition and, moreover, affording the usual protections.

]]> By: mike seccombe http://www.radioopensource.org/legal-limbo-at-guantanamo/#comment-85663 mike seccombe Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:38:52 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=960#comment-85663 A note in support of Major Michael Mori, who is threatened with charges for defending not only against this government, but also facing resistance from the Australian government, for his support of David Hicks. A note in support of Major Michael Mori, who is threatened with charges for defending not only against this government, but also facing resistance from the Australian government, for his support of David Hicks.

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