I’m all for safety nets and charities of all types to help people. I’m in that line of work myself.The point is these social programs on the whole are not the answer and do more harm than good. Everyone wants there fellow American to succeed It”s just a matter of the best approach. Welfare is by and large a failure. If you dont believe me go to any large city in the USA.I dont know what your line of work is or where you live I’m just telling you as someone who deals with this issue on a day to day basis. There has got to be a better way of helping people than what we have been doing for the last 50 years.

Lets admit failure and try another approach. I’m sorry that all of the social engineers of the 60′s got it wrong. There heart was in the right place and there were some success stories but lets be honest we would not be having this disscusion if there ideas and programs worked.

So I guess we both want the same thing we just dont agree on the best way to get there.

I am a retired sociologist with a specialty in race relations and I was an activist in the movement in the 60′s. I challenge McWhorter to cite one legitimate source that documents this statement. I challenge him to say who, where, and when this was done. How many people were affected? In my opinion it is a slander on the movement.

Dr. Jerry Carr

“You see we have already established the fact that blacks are discriminated against and just can’t make it without special govt programs to make up for past and present racism.”

A forward looking society wants to eliminate poverty, illiteracy, poor health, domestic violence, unemployment, drug abuse, and crime, regardless of the cause or who the victim is. Our governments, churches, and charities have programs designed to address these concerns. Why? Because a capitalistic society is based on RISK. Other structures don’t have the risk of the capitalist approach. In recognition of that risk, even the most cold-hearted of the bankers, robber barons, industrialists, and blue bloods knew that such a system needed a SOCIAL SAFETY NET. Welfare is one component of the social safety net. Depending on what other types of support are also employed and the goals of that support, welfare can be successful or not.

You say you have seen families where the entire family is unemployed. I have seen what one Affirmative Action job – mainstream, good pay, advancement, and benefits – has done for that family. The whole community benefits. At different times in everyone’s life, they need a break. You act like you don’t want anyone to get a break, and you sure don’t want to give one.

And pln – Don’t give me that “many of these jobs being shipped offshore are going, not because it’s cheaper, but because that’s where the TALENT is.” No offense, but your employer is not looking for graduates of Waterloo, MIT, or Caltech. Your employer wants CHEAP TALENT that speaks english, that’s all. You’re lucky to have your job. When your cost of living gets high enough, you may choose to move to Pakistan to get a job like the one you have now and raise your quality of life. With foreign talent, companies can get 2 for one through a placement agency, and 4 or 5 to one offshore. The American wants stock options, vacations, competitive benefits, gear, etc. not just a paycheck.

Anyway, back to race, class, and New Orleans – we’ve got to help each other as much as necessary for our nation to truly prosper. We can afford to be kind and generous, can’t we?

I have to remind myself to tell the Africans and west indians that I interact with to stop doing so well .They are screwing things up for others.

You are probably right on your reasoning for the lack of scientists coming out of our schools.

I don’t think it’s the schools. Everyone I know who really excels in science and engineering started off at a young age being intrinsically interested in it. We were all the little science geeks and ham radio operators and the kids with the sliderules and chemistry sets and telescopes when we were young. By the time I was 15 I had my ham license AND I had published photos I had taken through a telescope (and developed in my own darkroom).

There are a few kids today who write software or design their own video games, but there aren’t very many, at least in the US. Part of the problem with being an affluent society is kids are raised to CONSUME things instead of creating, designing, or discovering things on their own. Technology, to most American kids, is like magic – it just works if you use the right incantation, but there’s no thought of trying to understand it.

Back to the question of race. In my industry black engineers and other technical positions are not as uncommon as the stereotypes suggest, BUT it’s interesting that most of the black co-workers I’ve had were not African-AMERICANS – - they were born outside the US, either in the Caribbean or Africa.

As someone who works in this field why do you think this is? As you say these are well paying jobs that give one lots of opportunity.Is it lack of interest or are the schools not providing the proper education? I have no idea, but I must concur with your observation.

Our position is whatever it is. There’s no destiny involved, no “evolution”.

I’ve worked in high tech all my life and in recent years in most organizations where I’ve worked filling open positions for scientists, mathematicians, and engineers, (most of my work has involved scientific or medical image/signal processing) is like pulling teeth.

There are just not enough Americans interested in hard-science and engineering to fill those positions, despite the fact that pay, benefits, intellectual stimulation and creativity are among the best in our economy. So we hire Chinese and Indians or ship the work offshore. And that’s a key thing that many people here DON’T GET : many of these jobs being shipped offshore are going, not because it’s cheaper, but because that’s where the TALENT is.

Anyway, in the next few decades it won’t be ANYBODY’s position to be laborers – pure manual labor is rapidly being replaced by automation worldwide, and we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. The future belongs to whoever has brains, education, discipline and creativity – whether that will include Americans is up to us.

I have worked with young adults who have no family members that have ever held a job. Try talking to that person about work ethic, punctuality,respect for others, and things of that nature. This is one of the fruits that our welfare system has produced.Generations of people from the same family with little or no idea of what it is like to actually hold a job and bring home a paycheck. There is a certain good feeling one gets when they open that first check no matter how small. Its a sense of accomplishment. A paycheck gives one a sense of value and pride.It sais I am worth something.I am a contributer to society. A welfare check can never do this. It sais I am worthless. I have no value. I have accomplished nothing, and I am a burden on society. Take a persons self worth away and you are left with little more than a empty soul with 2 arms and 2 legs.

As I stated earlier the problems are numerous. Welfare is just one of many problems.The solutions are also numerous. As Ward stated “The future waits for no one” One should never rely on the govt to create a scenario that will bring you happiness and prosperity. It’s not there job and it never should be.

His thoughts clarify nothing, they only serve to preserve confusion and misunderstanding. What a bunch of revisionistic platitudes …

Sign me DISAPPOINTED

And Potter – Inspection, questionnaire, and coupon for $12k USD cash in 3 days’ time, you’re darn right we could learn something from Hezbollah.

And pln – a flat progressive income tax would eliminate the need for deductions which are just efforts to make an unfair tax policy more fair, social engineering hmmm – that blade cuts both ways. Tax breaks as incentives should be straight grants, rather than part of the tax code. Tax reform, I’m not even hopeful.