Saudi Arabia, Mysterious Ally
To Listen: Get Adobe Flash Player, or download an mp3 at the bottom of the post.
[Kudos to our great intern Danielle Bennett for sniffing this one out.]
What’s the conversation behind the door? [Drew9678 / Flickr]
When Dick Cheney went to Saudi Arabia last month, King Abdullah apparently warned him that if the US pulls out of Iraq, the Saudis might be forced to back the Sunnis in the Iraqi civil war. The idea being that someone will have to keep Iran in check.
Just a few days later, Nawaf Obaid, a foreign policy advisor to the Saudi royal family, reminded the world in the Washington Post that the US had gone into Iraq against the express wishes of Saudi Arabia. And that US withdrawal now, by forcing Saudi intervention, would create a regional widening of the conflict.
Sabre-rattling or not, these warnings point back to the longstanding but uneasy relationship between the US and its decidedly undemocratic ally. We want to know more about it. More, too, about the mysterious Kingdom itself — its culture and internal political tensions especially.
On the partnership front, how strategically important are our complicated ties to oil-rich Saudi Arabia today? In what ways do they possibly undermine US foreign policy goals?
Inside Saudi Arabia, what are the power dynamics within the royal family (which showed briefly this week in Prince Turki’s apparent resignation as Ambassador to the US)? To what extent do the royal family and conservative Islamic leaders see eye to eye? How are the Saudis dealing with terrorism and al-Quaeda internally? And in what ways — apart from the growing Saudi blogosphere — does the rising generation express itself, on the street and behind closed doors?
Bernard Haykel
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Associate Professor, Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies, NYU
Returned in July 2006 from a year in Saudi Arabia researching the religious politics of the Kingdom
Toby Jones
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Assistant Professor, Middle Eastern history, Swarthmore
Spent a research year in Saudi Arabia in 2003; returned in 2005 for the International Crisis Group
Mai Yamani
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Saudi social anthropologist
Author, Cradle of Islam: The Hijaz and the Quest for an Arabian Identity and Changed Identities: The Challenge of the New Generation in Saudi Arabia and Feminism and Islam
Ahmed Al-Omran
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Blogger, Saudi Jeans
Student, King Saud University, Riyadh
- Extra Credit Reading
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Thom Shanker, Saudis Endorse New U.S. Strategy for Iraq, The New York Times, January 16, 2006: “Although Prince Saud’s endorsement of Mr. Bush’s new Iraq plan was lukewarm at best, the prince declined to be drawn into a discussion of potential Saudi actions in the event that Iraq slides into full-blown sectarian civil war.”
Toby Jones, The Iraq Effect in Saudi Arabia, Middle East Report: “As many as two million Shi’is live in Saudi Arabia, where they make up between 10-15 percent of the population….Although sectarian violence has only been episodic in the twentieth century, leading religious scholars in the kingdom have denounced Shi’a as apostates, and since the founding of Saudi Arabia in 1932 have periodically called for their extermination.”
Nawaf Obaid, Stepping Into Iraq: Saudi Arabia Will Protect Sunnis if the U.S. Leaves, The Washington Post, November 29, 2006: “One hopes [Bush won't ignore] the counsel of Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States, Prince Turki al-Faisal, who said in a speech last month that ‘since America came into Iraq uninvited, it should not leave Iraq uninvited.’ If it does, one of the first consequences will be massive Saudi intervention to stop Iranian-backed Shiite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis.”
shadmia, Saudi Arabia vs Iran in Iraq?, Shadmia’s World, December 4, 2006: “If US troops leave Iraq before the sectarian violence between the Sunnis and the Shiites is resolved, the situation could explode into a regional crisis, with the Saudis backing the minority Sunni Muslims and Iran bankrolling the majority Shiites. This could turn into a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran.”
Princes at Odds, The Economist, December 19, 2006: “If there is anything thicker, stickier and less transparent than crude oil, it is the inner workings of Saudi Arabia.”
Faiza Saleh Ambah, New Clicks in the Arab World, The Washington Post, November 12, 2006: “‘You can’t write whatever you want in the newspaper here; you can’t even lift up a poster in protest,’ said Farhan, 31, a computer programmer who attended Eastern Washington University in Spokane. ‘On the blog, it’s a different world. It was the only way to express myself the way I wanted.’”
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December 18th, 2006 at 11:37 am
To paraphrase Douglas Adams: “This is a whole new use of the word ‘ally’ with which I was previously unfamiliar.”
Just because someone sells you oil and you invite them to your ranch in Texas doesn’t make them your “ally”. If that were the case then Putin would be our ally.
The fact that we have any relationship whatsoever with Saudi Arabia – even diplomatic relations – is reprehensible. Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive, bigoted, sexist, culturally and politically backwards nations on earth!
It’s incredible that we allow no trade or travel with Cuba – a country a few miles off our coast that millions of Americans have strong cultural ties with, and that has enriched our music, dance, professional sports (and cocktails), but yet our political leadersa are falling all over themselves to cozy up to a handful of desert barbarians just because they have some black gooey stuff under their feet.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
plnelson,
we don’t agree all the time (especially about economic matters) but oh god do we ever see eye to eye on the question of the Saudis.
What makes Saudi Arabia so frightening to me are the reports that, repressive, ignorant, and bigoted as the Saudi royals themselves are, the common folk of that nation are supposedly even more fundamentalist. I have heard (not necessarily from a reliable source; what the source was, I no longer recall, so I cannot vouch for it) that even if, say, the Saudi rulers wanted to lift the laws prohibiting women from driving automobiles, the people themselves would not want those laws revoked!
I’m sure you haven’t forgotten about the overwhelming Saudi presence among the 9/11 hijackers, even though you neglected to mention it in your post. Funny, isn’t it, how even that fact never chills our govt’s cozy-schmoozy relationship with the Saudis.
“Black gooey stuff” indeed … under their feet and in our leader’s hearts.
Your comments on Cuba are equally agreeable to me.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
Okay, so, say America pulls out of Iraq and leaves Iran to back the Shiites and Saudi Arabia to back the Sunnis in their ongoing civil war.
Who should win? Not “who should we support” but WHO SHOULD WIN?
As an atheist, I would very much prefer that in a battle between two fundamentalist nations, neither take the gold (or the oil). However, given the relative histories of the two regions, and the cultures of their people (leaving out the equation the theocratic awfulness of their governments), I personally have to edge slightly in favor of Iran. I just find the Persians to be more educated than the Arabs, perhaps a little less likely to behave abominably when the chips are down.
Of course, common wisdom (including the contemptible antiwisdom prevalent in our government at present) holds that the Saudis are our jolly-good allies and the Iranians are monsters who hold symposia for holocaust deniers and want to wipe Israel off the map. I know all that, but in the end, I will take the long and proud history of Persia over the guys who flew planes into the WTC.
Holocaust deniers … terrorists … fundamentalists everywhere….
Dear God, please tell me, what is an atheist to do?
December 20th, 2006 at 11:53 am
I was once told that Jews are not permitted to enter Saudia Arabia?. Any truth to that? If so I hope you mention it on the show.
December 20th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Plnelson; Amen. I would not trust the Saudis as far as I could throw them.I wonder how many people know that they fund many of the Middle eastern studies majors at British and US universities.
In these halls of academia nothing but hate for America, the West, and Jews is taught. The students eat it up with the help of professors like Ward Churchill, Juan Cole etc,
December 21st, 2006 at 10:34 am
ah, the smell of academic McCarthyism in the morning……….
December 23rd, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Hurley, If you have an Israeli passport, or a passport with an Israeli stamp in it, you are restricted entry to Saudi Arabia.
December 24th, 2006 at 10:39 am
Thanks, Potter. Seasons greetings.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:06 am
The tourist visa story’s a bit more complicated.
In Feb. 2004, the Associated Press reported that an official Saudi Web site promoting a new tourist visa program listed four groups not eligible for such a visa. One was individuals “with either an Israeli passport or a passport that has an Israeli stamp.” A second was “Jewish People.”
After Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) complained publicly, CNN on Feb. 28, 2004 reported “The language was removed Friday morning [Feb. 27, according to my perpetual calendar], after Weiner complained. It now tells visitors to check with Saudi consulates in order to obtain visa information.”
It might be worth noting that the State Department’s Report on Global Anti-Semitism, dated January 5, 2005 and submitted to the House and Senate Foreign Relations Committees, contains these nuggets about Syria:
“Jews also were the only religious minority group whose passports and identity cards noted their religion. Jewish citizens must obtain permission from the security services before traveling abroad and must submit a list of possessions to ensure their return to the country. Jews also faced extra scrutiny from the Government when applying for licenses, deeds, or other government papers.”
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 am
To mjfhistorian; We all know this can not be true. As we all know that The Arab states have nothing against Jews and would never discriminate against them. It is only Zionism that they disagree with. At least that is what Juan Cole, Noam Chomsky, and all the other left wing intellects keep telling us.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
mjfhistorian, thanks for the clarification, such as it unfortunately is.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:48 am
This reminds me of something that happened last spring when a Mike McGavick began his unsuccessful run for Senate in Washington. Almost as soon as he started his campaign blog, he announced that Iran should not be allowed to play in the World Cup, for reasons that included Iran being not so democratic.
I left a comment on his blog (testing to see if they actually took comments from Democrats) to the effect that if Iran shouldn’t play, neither should Saudi Arabia or Angola. His blogger caught on that I wasn’t on their side and stopped responding, but not after he basically said that the difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran was that Iran was not our friend and they had nukes. Really didn’t matter how they treat their citizens.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Daniel Yergin’s book–The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power–has a very good history of the region. While the book doesn’t spend a great deal of time on religion, its history of the other major influence in the Middle East is a good read.
(The section on the Suez Crisis explains why the US Government gives a comparatively large amount of foreign aid to Egypt and Hosni Mubarak.)
Does anyone remember the Saudis promising to boost oil output prior to the 2004 election?
January 8th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
RE: Jews in KSA.
I have been there, and I can tell you that Jews can and do go to KSA. However, they cannot go on an Israeli passport (I would assume that Israeli Arabs are also barred from entering) or with an Israeli stamp in their passport. This is true in many other Arab countries that don’t have diplomatic relations with KSA. I knew Jewish Americans there, but they kept their Jewishness to themselves in *most* circumstances. That said, it should be noted that no display of any religion other than Islam is allowed, so don’t go out of the house with a cross or a Star of David on your neck. Some prominant people such as Thomas Freidman travel to KSA routinely.
I should also say that a particularly virulent form of anti-semitism has been nurtured in KSA, for example, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was until recently part of the Saudi curriculum.
As for the alliance with KSA, it is about big oil business, big arms business, and well, business, business, business as KSA has hired many foreign companies to design and implement the incredible pace of modernism (at least in terms of infrastructure) which has occurred there in the last 40-50 years.
A couple things I would like to hear discussed on the show:
The enormous epatriot labor population, most of whom are paid at very low wages, and live in conditions of virtual imprisonment.
And the treatment of these workers, many of whom are little more than indentured slaves. In today’s Arab News, there is yet another article on the *problem* of runaway workers…as if they are runnaway slaves. The “runnaway” maid issue is a particularly big one in a country in which virutally all middle class families have at least one live in maid. The rich have many…
January 10th, 2007 at 10:48 am
There are so many things to consider with Saudi Arabia and it is such a secretive country you have to put the effort into to learn a bit about it – it’s simply not covered in adequate detail by even the quality press in either Europe or North America. It strikes me that although the Saudis might be relatively conservative if they were left to their own devices, a lot has been imposed by a super-empowered clerical class.
The history of KSA seems to be a balance between the power of the Royal Family (originally from al-Saud’s military prowess that joined the tribes and formed one kingdom, and now from the dynasty’s oil wealth) and the clerical class. Because the country is a monarchy where the subjects of the king have few rights, to avoid revolution the royal family pay-off many – spreading the oil wealth around – and then buy off the clerics to preach to the rest that the being subjects of an absolute monarch is god’s will. The clerical class knows the royal family’s legitimacy rests on their support, so in effect blackmail the Royal Family into allowing them ever more influence and control over the lives of Saudis. The dangers of not having the clerics support was made obvious to the Monarchy in 1979 when the Grand Mosque of Mecca was seized by Wahhabi zealots who claimed that the royals were infidels. The Saudis needed hundreds of Pakistani troops and covert support from French special forces to oust them in a very bloody operation. KSA sent so many young men to fight in Afghanistan (including bin Laden) as a safety valve against these domestic tensions, as well as to show America their support in the fight against Communism. The royals have also had to try and play off different groups within the clergy against each other: in the 1980s the influence of the diverse Imams and Sheiks of the “Sahwa” (Reawakening) movement, particularly within Saudi universities, kept growing. They were more political than the traditional Wahhabi Imams, yet still theologically very conservative. With the Grand Mosque uprising still in their minds the Royals had to co-opt the Sahwa intellectuals not oppose them. To do so they allowed them to “re-Islamize” Saudi society as well as funding increasing international Dawa (preaching) Within the country the place of women and religious minorities became increasingly circumscribed.
Allowing US troops to come to Saudi Arabia during the 1990-1 Gulf War broke the deal, sahwa leaders started to denounce the monarchy and as a result most of the were imprisoned through 90s, or fled to London. This was also the point where bin Laden turned against his own country, leaving Saudi Arabia in 1991 for Sudan. The King got a fatwa supporting the US presence from the more traditional Wahhabi ulema (clerics) but their price for support was the chance to control social life and, as Gilles Kepel writes, “the Kingdom fell into a bottomless pit of Islamizationâ€. It seems that many of those involved in the al-Qaeda violence inside KSA in the last few years were originally sympathetic to the Sahwa movement and reacted to their repression with violence. Rather similar to how some of the Muslim Brothers in Egypt reacted to the repression under Sadat in the 60s by turning to violence with Gamaa Islamiyya and Egyptian Islamic Jihad being the result.
This is my interpretation from reading what good sources I have come across such the Crisis Group’s reports on Saudi Arabia and Gilles Kepel’s books amongst others, but I would like to hear some real country experts take us through Saudi history from, say, the second world war up to now to see if my understanding is going in the right direction.
January 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I find myself wondering if Iraq does indeed split into pieces, would Saudis and Sunni Iraqis be amenable to having Al Anbar joined to Saudi Arabia? (Few nations object to annexing adjacent territory…) The Saudis would help their fellow Arab Sunni brothers. And the Sunnis of Al Anbar would be part of a nation with oil supplies (solving the problem that Iraq’s oil supplies are all in Shiite and Kurdish areas). It would be interesting to know if geostrategists somewhere (Riyadh? Washington?) are examining how Iraqi Sunnis could be integrated into Saudi society…
January 12th, 2007 at 2:32 am
[This comment has been deleted. Please refer to The Rules -- Greta]
January 13th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
There is a book entitled “Princess” which is the biography of a Saudi Princess. It is more than chilling. It is almost impossible to believe that it is about a contemporaty culture. It is also bery difficult for me to understand how in this day and age we all stand by while women are treated so barbarically. I wish we would march peacefully into these countries with hordes of millions and refuse to allow people to treat each other they way they do.
Women, so convinced of the religious necessity they’ve have ground into them are taking their daughters to be mutilated, even when the fathers don’t demand it. so, the argument that the people are more religiously zealot than the royal family doesn’t seem too far off the mark to me.
plnelson, I’m right there with you on this one.
If there is any Axis of Evil, it’s the royal families of the US and Saudi Arabia. I find it reprehensible that the press has allowed this linkage and the fact that so many of the 9/11 perpetrator were Saudi to be a non-issue. Not only is it a form of collusion, it shows poor reporting skills. Always follow the money…
January 14th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Tom B – much of the fear about Iraq inside the KSA regime is because the Saudi’s have considerable Shi’a minorities themselves, most of whom live in the oil rich parts of the Kingdom, despite facing much prejudice and low standards of living. Check a map, many of the Saudi oil fields are next to what would become the Shi’a statelet of South Iraq if there was a split. Iraqi al-Anbar just borders Saudi desert.
Allison – it’s a nice idea but just think how well it would have gone down if the Soviets had sent millions to the US in the 60′s to march with the civil rights movement!
January 15th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Allison, why must you try and lay blame on the” royal families of the US ” for something that is clearly a Arab muslim problem. It is their culture and their belief system that allows this behavior.By trying to pass blame on to the US you help muslim extrmists continue to rationalize their actions. It seems with some people the US is always to blame. By the way who are the royal US families? The Kennedys?
January 15th, 2007 at 11:35 am
I’d like to know how easy it would be for someone to seriously damage the Saudi oil industry, either the pumps, pipelines, or port facilities. Is there someone with the expertise to comment on this?
January 15th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
It’s probably almost as easy as it would be to seriously damage America’s unguarded petrochemical alley stretched out for 10 miles between the Houston Ship Channel and Highway 225 (check a Houston map just for fun). Maybe the Saudis are really, really smart, and the Department of Homeland Security is not, but it would be hard to imagine that the Saudi facilities are significantly better protected than our totally unprotected facilities…
January 16th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Because Saudi Arabia contains Mecca and Medina,most Arabs believe that Saudia Arabia is Holy Ground-Sacred Space. Ben Laden’s complaint agains the West and America in particular is that the US Garrisoned its troups on Holy Soil. (i.e. the moral equivalent of Hitler stationing troups at the Vatican. The Saudis led us into the quagmire in 1991, used us a mercanaries against Sadam and failed to educate us regarding Arab mentalities. Remember the Kingdom of the House of Saud encourages the most fantatical form of Islam also spawned the terrorists who attacked on 911. As some one said this is a war that begin in 1991and had intensified over a decade. We have been lured by oil. However, we have provided the Saudi Kingdom with protection,defense with little democracy.
January 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Rc21 wrote: Allison, why must you try and lay blame on the’’ royal families of the US ‘’ for something that is clearly a Arab muslim problem.
Oh, I should have been more clear that the “royal families” comment was a non-sequitor. I don’t blame anyone outside of Saudi Arabia for the internal culture.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:27 am
I’d like to know the las vegas odds for the human species surviving 50, 100, 200 years.
January 17th, 2007 at 5:52 am
I don’t care how much the US and Iran do to quell the uprising that have already started when Sadam invaded Kuwait and not when the Afghan Arabs came back from Afhgnistans like mythological heros. This is the next two things that will happen in Arabia :
1. The fundemntalists will over throw the present absolute rulers of Arabia be it Kings or presidents and will eventually rule for some time.
2. Then the progressives will overthrow the theocrats and rule over Arabia.
Thing is in order not to let #1 take place is to help the progressives first quash the devil of them all Tribalsim, and fundemntalism will have no place in Arabia.
Islam is a simple religon. It is a religion of love, forgiveness and compassion. The Fundemantilists have skewed the religion to their likings, and the West intermittently have supported these Fundemantilists against the progressives as were the case in Afghnistan, Yemen.
Now we are faced with sectarianism, or so they say, but the real evil of all this incessant hell is tribalism. You take aways the control of the tribes of Arabia, and you will have move civilized societies. Only with the demise of tribalism can peace and rule of law and civility can begin to permeate in Arabia.
The US, Britain and the West have to let go from affecting the naturl developments in Arabia, and the eventual winners by natural laws will be Arab moslems who understand their religion whole lot better than their contemporary fundematilists and their present Imams and leaders and will co-exist in peace and harmony with the whole world like never before.
US out of Arabia, UK out of Arabia, let the Arabs settle their own score, and they will eventually learn to respect and love one another and consequntly the world.
-Salam
January 18th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
1. The fundemntalists will over throw the present absolute rulers of Arabia be it Kings or presidents and will eventually rule for some time.
2. Then the progressives will overthrow the theocrats and rule over Arabia.
Thing is in order not to let #1 take place is to help the progressives first quash the devil of them all Tribalsim, and fundemntalism will have no place in Arabia.
I agree that #1 is highly likely. I don’t see the slightest evidence of #2.
Islam is a simple religon. It is a religion of love, forgiveness and compassion.
Yeah, right, sure, whatever you say . . .
US out of Arabia, UK out of Arabia, let the Arabs settle their own score, and they will eventually learn to respect and love one another and consequntly the world.
I agree we should get out. And I agree there will be lots of score-settling. And I could get rich if I had the DeWalt drill franchise in Iraq after we leave. But WRT the rest – you’re dreaming.
January 23rd, 2007 at 2:31 pm
QUOTE: When Dick Cheney went to Saudi Arabia last month, King Abdullah apparently warned him that if the US pulls out of Iraq, the Saudis might be forced to back the Sunnis in the Iraqi civil war. ENDQUOTE. — If the Saudi ‘royals’ do back the Sunnis in an Iraqi civil war, could that stabilize the situation? Could the Saudis (speaking the same language) identify and eliminate Sunni militias and put the militiamen under centralized (Saudi) command? Could Saudi Arabia successfully annex and dominate Al Anbar? Would the Saudis, should they send troops into Al Anbar, be received as allies or as foreign enemies? I understand the answers to these involve speculation, but are there those (presumably Saudis or Iraqi Sunnis, but perhaps simply academics) who are INTELLIGENTLY examining these issues? It seems we are always getting caught flat-footed when events move faster than our thinking; is anyone looking four or five moves ahead in this chessgame?
February 6th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
In Public View, Saudis Counter Iran in Region