Comments on: Speaking of Coltrane: Five Conversations (1) http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/ Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:09:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: katemcshane http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91793 katemcshane Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:37:44 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91793 I have listened only to the interviews with Ben Ratliff and Amiri Baraka. (I'm a little high on wine.) First I listened to Baraka, whom I have enjoyed for decades, from the time he was Leroi Jones. I have enjoyed every interview I've ever heard with him -- my heart is eased by what he says. Maybe he's a kindred spirit. I always feel less alone when I hear him. I could listen to this interview 10 times and feel eased. I heard the interview, for the first time, yesterday and all day I've thought about the apartment he had in NYC over the club when he heard Coltrane live all the time downstairs. I know I'm just rambling, but I think -- I wish I had lived there, I wish I could have gone downstairs in the evening and listened to the music. (I wish my life had been different.) When he talked about being in "solitary confinement" and the guard coming to say, Your man Coltrane died today, it reminded me of several times when I've loved an artist and thought about him all through a day and found out the next day that he had died. He was connected to John, to John's spirit. When he talked about what a quiet, humble man John was, I thought about footage I saw in the Ken Burns' film about jazz where John was walking across a street in NYC with one of his kids -- I can't explain why this happened, but when I was homeless, during the night when I was afraid, I would remember that image and feel comforted. I have a photograph of John Coltrane in my room. The interview with Ben Ratliff was very nice. Ratliff was intelligent and sane. I don't usually read biographies about artists, because the biographers, for me, are so much less than the artists, themselves, but I want to hear what he says about Coltrane, because Ben Ratliff seemed humbler than most biographers. I liked what he said, for instance, about Miles Davis being "slick and weightless" (I love Miles, but some things about him as a person make me sick). I really loved the description of Coltrane's inviting young musicians up onto the stage. I like any indication of someone raised in a western culture exhibiting eastern ideas. (Sometimes I wonder about drugs loosening someone's mind so much that they can let go and swim with a less competitive ideology. I'm sure that statement falls WAY short of my actual idea.) I loved Ratliff's description of the modest and generous guy who wanted to learn from other people, who never thought he could learn enough. This is the way I feel in life. I would like to live in an environment where I could learn from everyone -- it has happened in the past, but it's not happening right now. (Terrible job.) I loved the description of the books in Coltrane's library. I've missed everyone this summer. This website meant a lot to me. I've wished I could write to some of you, like Hurley, Jazzman, Peggysue -- among others -- but I had a tough summer. Someone I loved very much died, someone who meant so much to me -- Grace Paley, the most loving person I've ever known, the most exemplary human being I've ever had the privilege of knowing -- and I can't write about this even now without feeling a destructive, crushing loss. I have missed all of you. Chris, I have loved these interviews and I'll listen to more in the next few days, because I have time off until Tuesday. I hope you're doing well, but, apparently, you are. Love, Kate I have listened only to the interviews with Ben Ratliff and Amiri Baraka. (I’m a little high on wine.) First I listened to Baraka, whom I have enjoyed for decades, from the time he was Leroi Jones. I have enjoyed every interview I’ve ever heard with him — my heart is eased by what he says. Maybe he’s a kindred spirit. I always feel less alone when I hear him. I could listen to this interview 10 times and feel eased. I heard the interview, for the first time, yesterday and all day I’ve thought about the apartment he had in NYC over the club when he heard Coltrane live all the time downstairs. I know I’m just rambling, but I think — I wish I had lived there, I wish I could have gone downstairs in the evening and listened to the music. (I wish my life had been different.) When he talked about being in “solitary confinement” and the guard coming to say, Your man Coltrane died today, it reminded me of several times when I’ve loved an artist and thought about him all through a day and found out the next day that he had died. He was connected to John, to John’s spirit. When he talked about what a quiet, humble man John was, I thought about footage I saw in the Ken Burns’ film about jazz where John was walking across a street in NYC with one of his kids — I can’t explain why this happened, but when I was homeless, during the night when I was afraid, I would remember that image and feel comforted.

I have a photograph of John Coltrane in my room.

The interview with Ben Ratliff was very nice. Ratliff was intelligent and sane. I don’t usually read biographies about artists, because the biographers, for me, are so much less than the artists, themselves, but I want to hear what he says about Coltrane, because Ben Ratliff seemed humbler than most biographers. I liked what he said, for instance, about Miles Davis being “slick and weightless” (I love Miles, but some things about him as a person make me sick).

I really loved the description of Coltrane’s inviting young musicians up onto the stage. I like any indication of someone raised in a western culture exhibiting eastern ideas. (Sometimes I wonder about drugs loosening someone’s mind so much that they can let go and swim with a less competitive ideology. I’m sure that statement falls WAY short of my actual idea.) I loved Ratliff’s description of the modest and generous guy who wanted to learn from other people, who never thought he could learn enough. This is the way I feel in life. I would like to live in an environment where I could learn from everyone — it has happened in the past, but it’s not happening right now. (Terrible job.)

I loved the description of the books in Coltrane’s library.

I’ve missed everyone this summer. This website meant a lot to me. I’ve wished I could write to some of you, like Hurley, Jazzman, Peggysue — among others — but I had a tough summer. Someone I loved very much died, someone who meant so much to me — Grace Paley, the most loving person I’ve ever known, the most exemplary human being I’ve ever had the privilege of knowing — and I can’t write about this even now without feeling a destructive, crushing loss. I have missed all of you. Chris, I have loved these interviews and I’ll listen to more in the next few days, because I have time off until Tuesday. I hope you’re doing well, but, apparently, you are.

Love,

Kate

]]> By: nother http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91792 nother Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:11:54 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91792 "Jazz - if you want to call it that: we'll talk about that later - to me, it is an expression of music; and this music is an expression of higher ideals, to me. So therefore, brotherhood is there; and I believe with brotherhood, there would be no poverty. And also, with brotherhoood, there would be no war." -John Coltrane All of the quotes above came from an interview John did with Frank Kofsky in 1966. “Jazz – if you want to call it that: we’ll talk about that later – to me, it is an expression of music; and this music is an expression of higher ideals, to me. So therefore, brotherhood is there; and I believe with brotherhood, there would be no poverty. And also, with brotherhoood, there would be no war.”

-John Coltrane

All of the quotes above came from an interview John did with Frank Kofsky in 1966.

]]> By: nother http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91791 nother Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:05:40 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91791 John Coltrane the experimenter: “If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.” -Henry David Thoreau For me, Trane's transcendental trips into the abstract feel like hikes into a lush and dense rain forest…you might get pricked and bitten on the journey, but a wonderful waterfall potentially awaits your presence at the end. It’s folly to view Trane's track as a linear journey to the abstract…he would have come back...and back…and back again. “There was a thing I wanted to do in music, see, and I figured I could do two things: I could have a band that played like the way we used to play, and a band that was going in the direction that the one I have now is going. And it could have been done.” -John Coltrane Trane’s answer to his critics: “Well this could be a real drag to a cat if he figures this is something that he won’t be able to cope with and he won’t be able to write about.” If he can’t write about it, he can’t make a living at this." John Coltrane the experimenter:

“If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.”

-Henry David Thoreau

For me, Trane’s transcendental trips into the abstract feel like hikes into a lush and dense rain forest…you might get pricked and bitten on the journey, but a wonderful waterfall potentially awaits your presence at the end.

It’s folly to view Trane’s track as a linear journey to the abstract…he would have come back…and back…and back again.

“There was a thing I wanted to do in music, see, and I figured I could do two things: I could have a band that played like the way we used to play, and a band that was going in the direction that the one I have now is going. And it could have been done.”

-John Coltrane

Trane’s answer to his critics:

“Well this could be a real drag to a cat if he figures this is something that he won’t be able to cope with and he won’t be able to write about.” If he can’t write about it, he can’t make a living at this.”

]]> By: nother http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91790 nother Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:47:55 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91790 John Coltrane the individual: The Nobel Prize winning writer Gao Xingjian was sent into exile during the Cultural Revolution in China. As an artist, he like John Coltrane, expressed his art in a context of oppression - Yet, these men are not political activists. Xingjian writes, “The challenge leveled by the artist at society is, when all is said and done, an individual one.” Trane never played for an audience…he only played for him-self. Miles was famous for not addressing the crowd when he played…he would face the drummer. Yet even Miles spent an inordinate amount of time on his clothes and image. Trane’s mode of dress was indiscriminate…more like a blank slate for his sound. "I think the best thing I can do at this time is to try to get myself in shape and know myself. If I can do that, then I'll just play, you see, and leave it at that. I belive that will do it, if I really can get to myself and be just as I feel I should be and play it. And I think they'll get it, because music goes a long way - it can influence." - John Coltrane John Coltrane the individual:

The Nobel Prize winning writer Gao Xingjian was sent into exile during the Cultural Revolution in China. As an artist, he like John Coltrane, expressed his art in a context of oppression – Yet, these men are not political activists. Xingjian writes, “The challenge leveled by the artist at society is, when all is said and done, an individual one.”

Trane never played for an audience…he only played for him-self. Miles was famous for not addressing the crowd when he played…he would face the drummer. Yet even Miles spent an inordinate amount of time on his clothes and image. Trane’s mode of dress was indiscriminate…more like a blank slate for his sound.

“I think the best thing I can do at this time is to try to get myself in shape and know myself. If I can do that, then I’ll just play, you see, and leave it at that. I belive that will do it, if I really can get to myself and be just as I feel I should be and play it. And I think they’ll get it, because music goes a long way – it can influence.”

- John Coltrane

]]> By: nother http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91789 nother Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:37:55 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91789 For me, John Coltrane is an embodiment of masculinity. Many people confuse macho and masculine, but macho is only a tiny part of masculine. If macho is the Yin in a masculine man, than tenderness is the yang…and my man Trane, scales all that terrain. His sound is at once voracious and subdued…it’s never tentative. Trane is the Splendid Splinter of Jazz, he can connect to all fields – and he just might take ya out of the ballpark all together. His blows are exerted in Muhammad Ali style…by that I mean the style that fits the occasion. Ali would dance whatever dance was your pleasure…only he would be sure to lead. Ultimately, John was a force. “You know, I want to be a force for real good. In other words, I know that there are bad forces, forces put here that bring suffering to others and misery to the world, but I want to be the force which is truly for good.” -John Coltrane For me, John Coltrane is an embodiment of masculinity. Many people confuse macho and masculine, but macho is only a tiny part of masculine. If macho is the Yin in a masculine man, than tenderness is the yang…and my man Trane, scales all that terrain.

His sound is at once voracious and subdued…it’s never tentative.

Trane is the Splendid Splinter of Jazz, he can connect to all fields – and he just might take ya out of the ballpark all together.

His blows are exerted in Muhammad Ali style…by that I mean the style that fits the occasion. Ali would dance whatever dance was your pleasure…only he would be sure to lead.

Ultimately, John was a force.

“You know, I want to be a force for real good. In other words, I know that there are bad forces, forces put here that bring suffering to others and misery to the world, but I want to be the force which is truly for good.”

-John Coltrane

]]> By: hurley http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91788 hurley Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:06:27 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91788 A thought, lost as the rice began to burn, listening to Coltrane, concerning the spiritual dimensions of JC. The farther he goes the nearer I am, always susceptible to the heartbreak in his ballads, the heartbreak everywhere. He's one of the few American artists to capture what a lot of Indian music conveys so well: a sense of yearning. If you listen closely you can only come away with more yearning, more joyful uncertaintly. A thought, lost as the rice began to burn, listening to Coltrane, concerning the spiritual dimensions of JC. The farther he goes the nearer I am, always susceptible to the heartbreak in his ballads, the heartbreak everywhere. He’s one of the few American artists to capture what a lot of Indian music conveys so well: a sense of yearning. If you listen closely you can only come away with more yearning, more joyful uncertaintly.

]]> By: hurley http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91787 hurley Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:37:04 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91787 I laugh to think these wonderful interviews might be coming to us under the auspices of the Watson Institute for International Studies. A credit to the Institute, in any case. The insight into the quality of Coltrane's obsession a revelation of sorts, an inspiring one, as I'm sure he would have wished. Bill Pierce's commentary riveting. I laugh to think these wonderful interviews might be coming to us under the auspices of the Watson Institute for International Studies. A credit to the Institute, in any case. The insight into the quality of Coltrane’s obsession a revelation of sorts, an inspiring one, as I’m sure he would have wished. Bill Pierce’s commentary riveting.

]]> By: plaintext http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91786 plaintext Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:04:46 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91786 Ben Ratliff said it all when he spoke about Coltrane's generosity of spirit, his quest for that next inspiration, his basic human inner nature. These are the things that any saint would hold dear. You only want to be in his presence somehow. If it be by listening to his music or reading the stuff he read or visiting the places he was said to play or following the people who hung out with him or meditating on what a life like his might be like, so be it. The great vision that comes to you is that, should you somehow master communication to that extent, you would be no more a man than John Coltrane. Ben Ratliff said it all when he spoke about Coltrane’s generosity of spirit, his quest for that next inspiration, his basic human inner nature. These are the things that any saint would hold dear. You only want to be in his presence somehow. If it be by listening to his music or reading the stuff he read or visiting the places he was said to play or following the people who hung out with him or meditating on what a life like his might be like, so be it. The great vision that comes to you is that, should you somehow master communication to that extent, you would be no more a man than John Coltrane.

]]> By: Potter http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91785 Potter Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:28:29 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91785 Tin Pan Alley's no prison, heavens! - I love and am stuck on those beautiful melodies and then what Coltrane does with them. That’s what ropes a lot of us in to Coltrane. I saved Amiri Baraka's for last still upset with him for his 9/11 poem. He was not the angry man I remember in this interview and quite good. I like especially what he said about God and goodness. So Chris you are right about the softening. I'm just getting turned on ( or tuned in) to some of these recordings. Though I have identified the ones that drew me in, it would be helpful to have a little discography of the excerpts played for each interview. It was said in one of the interviews that the saxophone or tenor sax is the closest to a human voice. I think that can be said too about other instruments: the violin, the trombone. While listening, enveloped in Coltrane, Billie Holiday and the moody atmosphere she creates around a song came to mind. When Alain Pacowski spoke of the different sounds of Coltrane I think he was meaning the surfaces, mood or style whereas when (I think it was) Bill Pierce spoke of Coltrane’s sound (“nobody can repeat the things he did”) he meant something deeper and total- more like the vibration of his soul. On that level no one can copy another. What a gift! Thank you again. Tin Pan Alley’s no prison, heavens! – I love and am stuck on those beautiful melodies and then what Coltrane does with them. That’s what ropes a lot of us in to Coltrane.

I saved Amiri Baraka’s for last still upset with him for his 9/11 poem. He was not the angry man I remember in this interview and quite good. I like especially what he said about God and goodness. So Chris you are right about the softening.

I’m just getting turned on ( or tuned in) to some of these recordings. Though I have identified the ones that drew me in, it would be helpful to have a little discography of the excerpts played for each interview.

It was said in one of the interviews that the saxophone or tenor sax is the closest to a human voice. I think that can be said too about other instruments: the violin, the trombone.

While listening, enveloped in Coltrane, Billie Holiday and the moody atmosphere she creates around a song came to mind.

When Alain Pacowski spoke of the different sounds of Coltrane I think he was meaning the surfaces, mood or style whereas when (I think it was) Bill Pierce spoke of Coltrane’s sound (“nobody can repeat the things he did”) he meant something deeper and total- more like the vibration of his soul. On that level no one can copy another.

What a gift! Thank you again.

]]> By: Potter http://www.radioopensource.org/speaking-of-coltrane-five-conversations/#comment-91784 Potter Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:19:59 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=1166#comment-91784 Stopping 3/5fths of the way through to say a big thank you. I have always run away from talk about music feeling that listening is primary. On the other hand having studied the visual arts I know that this kind of discussion can open ones's eyes ( ears in this case). In the last few years only have I opened my ears to Coltrane and now I am getting a rush of him. It's probably been said but he has a language that one needs to become familiar with ( okay like Jackson Pollack). I can't listen to Coltranes most chaotic work, not yet anyway, but that aside, I am transported. Youv'e played some great examples. Alain Pacowski ( I want to listen to him again!) talks of Coltrane's different sounds and examples were given. But in each of those examples it's always Coltrane- his voice. I have not listened to enough saxophone to be sure of this but it may have something to do with the breath itself. Of course it must be. I can always tell when it's Johnny Hodges for instance. And now, with more listening, I can tell Coltrane. And yes, there are songs that just melt me away ( Everytime We Say Goodbye with McCoy Tyner), and others that take us to another world, another planet. Then there are other pieces that seem too, well, self-indulgent. But as was said, this is the man discovering himself and without that we don't have the more accessible work. And so if I am not ready for his trip or up for it, I am not going to fret over it. Some of it just turns me away- I can't take it. It makes me want to climb a tree. But it's not only the ballads that I love either ( and I prefer no vocals) but pieces that are atmospheric and edgy and still communicate. "Lush Life" was awesome, Alain. I loved Alain's descriptive phrases about Coltrane: his "force of conviciton" originality, intensity. Maybe it was the French accent ( which is why I have to listen again) :-) Stopping 3/5fths of the way through to say a big thank you. I have always run away from talk about music feeling that listening is primary. On the other hand having studied the visual arts I know that this kind of discussion can open ones’s eyes ( ears in this case). In the last few years only have I opened my ears to Coltrane and now I am getting a rush of him. It’s probably been said but he has a language that one needs to become familiar with ( okay like Jackson Pollack). I can’t listen to Coltranes most chaotic work, not yet anyway, but that aside, I am transported. Youv’e played some great examples. Alain Pacowski ( I want to listen to him again!) talks of Coltrane’s different sounds and examples were given. But in each of those examples it’s always Coltrane- his voice. I have not listened to enough saxophone to be sure of this but it may have something to do with the breath itself. Of course it must be. I can always tell when it’s Johnny Hodges for instance. And now, with more listening, I can tell Coltrane. And yes, there are songs that just melt me away ( Everytime We Say Goodbye with McCoy Tyner), and others that take us to another world, another planet. Then there are other pieces that seem too, well, self-indulgent. But as was said, this is the man discovering himself and without that we don’t have the more accessible work. And so if I am not ready for his trip or up for it, I am not going to fret over it. Some of it just turns me away- I can’t take it. It makes me want to climb a tree. But it’s not only the ballads that I love either ( and I prefer no vocals) but pieces that are atmospheric and edgy and still communicate.

“Lush Life” was awesome, Alain.

I loved Alain’s descriptive phrases about Coltrane: his “force of conviciton” originality, intensity. Maybe it was the French accent ( which is why I have to listen again) :-)

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