Comments on: Taking the Food Stamp Challenge

By: The Instant Profit Multiplier For Small Business! | 7Wins.eu

The Instant Profit Multiplier For Small Business! | 7Wins.eu — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 00:19:08 +0000

[...] ng the impact of computer-related technology trends, and whatever else catches my interest.Open Source » Blog Archive » Taking the Food Stamp Challe [...]

By: alwyzjas

alwyzjas — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:11:26 +0000

Above is my Food Stamp Challenge documented. Now I’m sharing my experience with as many people possible so that I can make a change! It wasn’t an easy project…but it def. opened my eyes!

By: alwyzjas

alwyzjas — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:10:03 +0000

Check it out! http://welchesgrapejelly.blogspot.com/

By: Music for diners » Taking the Food Stamp Challenge

Music for diners » Taking the Food Stamp Challenge — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:00:12 +0000

[...] m last week: a bag of spinach ($1), … Want to read more? Full post is available at Open Source No Comments » No comments yet. RSS feed for [...]

By: Lexington Law WebLog » Blog Archive » Visual Basic Thunder

Lexington Law WebLog » Blog Archive » Visual Basic Thunder — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:48:07 +0000

[...] 0; The job he has now does not pay a lot not with the health insur … http://www.radioopensource.org/taking-the-food-stamp-challenge/ wantlistpage [...]

By: allison

allison — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:23:37 +0000

When I was at jury duty recently a judge came out to give us all our inspirational civics lesson. In it he reminded us that our founders did not fight to end taxation. They fought because they did not have a say over who got taxed how much and what the taxes were used for. Particularly, they were enraged because there was a jury system in England, but here in the colonies, the Crown sent over a judge who had unlimited power. The colonists were refusing to pay their taxes in protest to this unjust system. They would pointedly refuse to pay their taxes and then protest when a judge would make a unitary ruling. Not because they didn’t see the need for everyone to support a government and a social system.

The first point made in the Declaration of Independece is about consent: “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” They go on to say they have the right to “throw off” a Despot. It goes on for quite some time outlining the despotic actions of King George.

But also, early on, it claims that a government is supposed to be “laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

In this statement, it leaves it open for the People to decide how the government can effect their safety and happiness. (Not just safety.) As a society, we are charged with continually determining what we need from the government to best ensure our safety and happiness. There is room here for this to evolve. As Potter stated, our founders at first thought it best to have the government enforce the ideals of slavery. I’m glad we’ve moved on from there. It makes sense that we would also look at ways to ameliorate the sufferings of our citizens, since we are supposed to be considering how our government can effect the safety and happiness of everyone. Those with more resources – financial, health and emotional (which can directly effect the body’s physical makeup and a person’s ability to function healthfully) need less from the government, those with fewer resources need more help.

It also makes sense that, as a society, we will eternally wrangle over where the lines are drawn. But the Declaration of our founders is pretty clear. They are not upset over the concept of taxation. They are upset over the abuse of the King and his unwillingness to provide for their safety and happiness.

By: Potter

Potter — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:30:55 +0000

RC21- Just as many quotes would be two to match what I gave you. I would like two quotes from founding fathers that hold the “opposite” of the views that Locke and Smith express. Remember “opposite”….( stating what that opposite view might be please).

Please be so good as to concede as well that this country fought a revolution, not to be relieved of taxation ( paying for their government), but to HAVE a government of their own, for citizenship in it, for representation, which meant independence.

Thanks.

By: herbert browne

herbert browne — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:49:44 +0000

Re “What we have now is a far cry from what was originally envisioned..”-
That’s true… on so many levels. We started out being free to make our own liquor, grow what we liked, and to move Westward with impunity (and to buy & sell human workers, & some other less savory social options). We have come a long ways… and discovered that the physical “freedoms” we once had became conflict zones between “free” individuals- and that government became an arbitrating force. We also felt, in general, that roads should be a common concern (not just a private one)… and that schools should be inclusive-and paid for by those who were taxed (land-owners, mostly… males who also had the right to vote). Many changes… with a general tendency to favor the greatest number with what was considered the greatest good, at the time… I don’t imagine that the early founders of our country really saw a continent-wide settlement of 300 million people, or could have embraced wars with people halfway ’round the world with whom we shared no language, few customs, and virtually no physical contact (other than that encountered by the armed forces that we sent to those places). Lots of things have changed… and I’d certainly embrace a return to a number of the beliefs held by the early Americans… though not all. ^..^

By: rc21

rc21 — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:09:35 +0000

I can give you just as many quotes supporting the opposite view. The fact is, and this is really not in dispute, that our country was founded on the belief that there would be a limited amount of taxation and that we would also have a very limited amount of central govt regulation in regards to our personal lives.

What we have now is a far cry from what was originally envisioned.

By: Potter

Potter — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:43:23 +0000

RC21- The war of Independence was not about being taxed per se, but being taxed without representation… no inconsequential detail.

The founders of our country conceived of taxes as part of a citizen’s duty and responsibility so that the elected government could promote and provide for the general welfare. Says so in the Constitution…..

Of those who greatly influenced our founding fathers, those who wrote the Constitution by which we live together,ratified by all states:

John Locke said:

‘Tis true that governments cannot be supported without great charge, and it is fit everyone who enjoys a share of protection should pay out of his estate his proportion of the maintenance of it.

and this:

The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state ….[As Henry Home (Lord Kames) has written, a goal of taxation should be to] “remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.”

Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, 1776

By: rc21

rc21 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:31:08 +0000

Potter, I think the ”It’s your money mantra” was actually started by the founders of our country way back in the 1700’s culminating in a little thing we called our war of independence.

But why get caught up in little inconsequnuential details.

By: rc21

rc21 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:22:38 +0000

First I also feel bad for people who get into tough situations,and if you read some of my earlier posts you will see I said people who have phisical and or mental disabilities should be helped by the govt. You and your family fit that criteria. Your husband had knee surgery which I’m sure prevented him from working, and your child has health problems. So I would have no problems with you getting help from the govt.

Don’t worry about being to harsh On this forum it’s fairly common.

By: 4gr8kidz

4gr8kidz — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:33:32 +0000

RC21, I think you in particular are really getting kinda slammed here, I was too harsh, and I read your further posts…..I agree on the “owe me” attitude SOME people have, along with those who abuse the system and milk it for anything they can get. ( My DH and I had our children when he was making PLENTY of money to care for them, by they way, after 8 yrs of infertility!) I agree also, that we should do everything in our power to better ourselves, and our education to get out of a bad situation. (We certainly do!) I too, use oatmeal, yogurt and other cheap healthy foods, and I like I said, we do make it. None of my children are obese/overweight. I am out in Upstate NY, so I dont’ know about this congressman or his agenda. I don’t have regular internet access, we only have 5 bills (Morgage, electric, propane,phone, water) We have no huge debt, credit cards etc. We ONLY get food stamps and WIC. We certainly don’t intend to have them forever!! What I struggle with is the stigma, and attitude that EVERYONE blah blah blah. I differ from you, in that I DO feel bad for those worse off than we are! You can’t always just pick up and move. First of all, houses are not selling here. No way to get a new place, if you cant’ sell the old one. Second of all, some people have obligations, such as elderly family care, they can’t move away from. If we could sell and move to find better jobs, we would. You do what you have to do! If it takes 3 jobs, well, you work and don’t sleep. And sometimes, that still just isn’t enough. I try not to feel bad about getting food stamps, but its’ hard when there’s so many people out there who want to make you feel like a lazy, slob who doesn’t want to work. I think you present your arguments well, but I also think it’s hard for some to take. And that’s ok too, right!? Anyway, I just wanted to apologize for being harsh to you in particular, as you have many valid issues, just as those of us in this situation do as well.

By: 4gr8kidz

4gr8kidz — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:54:47 +0000

I can’t believe some of the attitudes and comments like RC21. My family is on foodstamps. We hate it. We never thought we’d be in this situation. My Husband lost his job, and we had a new house, 4 small children. (Not like we can just sell the house, and move to a area with more jobs.) Then this year, in ONE month, our only car broke, my husband had knee surgery, my infant had health crisis….and here we are. My children are on Medicaid. We get WIC. Let me tell you, you have NO IDEA what your’e talking about rc21. There are people out here, who have an education, have worked since we were 14 yrs old…and thru no fault of our own, have to use this program. We get $400 a month for a family of 6, and this and WIC are our ONLY source of food. We have a child that had to be on a gluten-free diet for several months, and we could not afford to feed her. Thank God, she is ok now and we can stop gluten free food. You can not get much on $100 a week with good nutrition, but we manage. You can get 3 boxes of crappy powder mac n cheese for .99, but you can’t get apples, bananas, lettuce, lean meat for less that twice that. Honestly, it’s no wonder people on welfare and food stamps can be unhealthy!! You are forced to stretch your money as far as possible, shopping at places like ALDI’s and Save-a-lot, where all they have is canned, processed, salt/sugar-free stuff I don’t want to feed my kids! Do you realize you can get 2 liters of soda for 60c but you can’t get a gallon of milk for less than $2. Spaghetti-o’s may be 4 cans for a dollar, but have like NO nutrition at all! Luckily we have enough yard to have a nice garden. We make our own bread, I have a pasta maker for homemade pasta, I sew most of our clothes, diapers, house things like curtains, napkins. I consider myself lucky. At least I KNOW how to sew, cook, clean, can, garden etc. You have no idea how hard it is, when we can’t find any jobs, and our children are there looking to us to care for them. If it was not for food stamps, we would not be able to do this. We do not get assistance, only food stamps, and we work our butts off EVERY DAY to scrape by on what jobs we found. We have to listen to our kids asking “Do we have money for fruit snacks? granola bars?” and have to say no. They see their friends having all sorts of ice cream, chips, snacks and colorful cereals, that just is not an option for us. How sad when my 7 yr old can tell my 4 yr old what we can and can’t choose, and what stores we can or can’t shop at. No, we didn’t starve TODAY. But I have certainly lived on one meal a day so I can feed my children 3. There have been MANY weeks this past year, where we had nothing but cherrios, eggs and peanut butter for more than two days in a row. We do not drink, smoke, do drugs, we went to college, we got jobs, we still work. We still keep looking for better jobs. You best hope you never have injury, illness, job layoff, company fold, because then YOU will see how easy it is, and maybe YOU can go to bed hungry and walk in our shoes.

By: herbert browne

herbert browne — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:54:07 +0000

What I remember about Reagan and his “It’s your money” mantra was that, when he came into office, the takeout for FICA on my paychecks was 5.85%- and when he left office it had nearly doubled. This was a tax on all of us at the “bottom” of the economic pile (since there’s a cap on how much is taxed) with a greater effect on the working poor than on anybody else. And his deficit budgets essentially took that money to pay for arms programs- and left IOUs in the Social Security fund. So much for “it’s your money”. It ’s Your Money when Your Picture is on it!
To avail oneself of a government program is simply doing what’s expected, no? If you’re a farmer, and USDA will pay you NOT to grow something, do you tell them “No, thanks”? If we had a national health care guarantee of service, paid for by our taxes, would we resist going to see a doctor because it wouldn’t be right to burden the government? At a time when corporations Pay people to go and GIVE MONEY to congresspersons, in order to encourage reciprocal “good will” on some level, just how selfish is it- if one legitimately qualifies, according to the rules- to take part in a government program? Is it “selfish” for someone who doesn’t pay property taxes to send their children to the public schools?
The principal motivation for me in those “days of wine and food stamps” was actually to be more self-sufficient WITHOUT taking the “More money is better” path- ie to pursue a kind of “subsidized pioneer” approach to living and raising a family. One reason that I took the wires off the house and had the meter removed was because the head of the Bonneville Power Authority was predicting huge energy shortages- and was instrumental in pushing for a consortium of public & private entities into floating bonds to build 5 nuclear power plants out here in the NW. (It was called WPPSS). I wanted to do my part to reduce demand (albeit an infinitesimal part). The plan was a colossal failure- one functioning plant was built- and the bonds became a joke. It was “conservation” that eliminated the “crisis” (eg insulated hot water tanks, thermopane windows, etc)… but the alarmist official went on to become Reagan’s Energy Secretary. Anyway, the best education I ever got was the 12 years without AC current in my happy home. It forced a lot of adapting and rethinking on us- for the better, mostly.
Having temporal constraints that were different from those imposed by a “9 to 5″ job meant that I could exercise my curiosity about events in my neighborhood- like going to “public” meetings- which I wouldn’t have been able to do, otherwise. When Nixon’s administration promulgated the community planning mandates for places near the coast, the meetings were purely for the “self-interest” crowd- big property owners, commercial business people (marinas, sawmills, etc), realtors & county commissioners… & maybe someone from the regional weekly paper. There weren’t any “ordinary” citizens- at first. When I showed up at one I was really the “odd duck” there… and when I asked a question, it was obvious right away that I was considered an idiot, to the 15 or so participants there. I wrote a “letter to the editor” of our weekly and said that the future of the area was being planned- and that if people couldn’t make it to the meetings, that maybe they ought to send their high school aged children to the meetings, because they were the ones who would have to live with what was being planned. There were 49 people at the next meeting- and 21 of them were young people. (This was part of what became the Coastal Zone Management Act, nationally.)
If we get obsessed with establishing a paradigm that monetizes EVERYthing, even morality, where does that lead? Does it create a corollary to “Might makes Right”, eg “Rich is Right”? I saw a quote today from EB White that really spoke to me, that I’d like to share… (from E B White) “Just to live in the country is a full-time job. You don’t have to do anything. The idle pursuit of making a living is pushed to one side, where it belongs, in favor of living itself, a task of such immediacy, variety, beauty, and excitement that one is powerless to resist its wild embrace.”
You have lived in the country, rc21… and I bet you understand what he’s talking about… ^..^

By: Potter

Potter — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:30:06 +0000

RC21 says:

You see this is what I find wrong with so many people, They really donâ€™t care about anyone but themselves.

Speaking of selfishness:

It was Ronald Reagan I believe who began this “it’s your money” mantra and did us a great disservice. “And we want to give it back to you” was added. And so other Republicans since, including Bush1 and Bush 2 have repeated and rallied around that cry. How incredibly irresponsible! The mantra should be “it’s YOUR government.” In that “it’s your money” cry I find a lot of what has gone wrong in this country… we are a lot more selfish and uncaring about the good of the whole society, indeed the world. And this gets rationalized in phrases like “trickle down” and “lifting all boats”.

By: Potter

Potter — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:57:52 +0000

No sir! You pay for your government just like your employer pays for you. Your employer does not come to you and say “what are you doing with my money?”

On the other hand your representatives are responsible to you and others. If you do not like what your reps are doing, then you can be heard. You can pressure or petition them or not vote for them. You can protest your grievances. But the money is no longer yours. It’s what you pay to live here- travel on roads, have your borders protected, your air cleaner,your public parks and reserves, wildlife protected, your laws of conduct, banking and corporate laws, enforced, your social security, your air and airwaves regulated, so on and so on – so that you can live your life. Your quarrel is with the majority in this country who want to have social programs out of conscience to help the less fortunate.

How can you blame anyone for taking advantage of what they are offered by your government?

Your problem and mine is we are not happy with some things that the government is doing in our name. I am with Herbert Browne about spending money on war and giving breaks to corporations and the wealthy.

And when he says “It’s all the government’s money”. He is right.

By: rc21

rc21 — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:42:57 +0000

Wrong. First it is my money. It is the money of every person who works and pays taxes. The Govt takes my hard earned money and spends it. Herbert has decided he would like to have some of my money and asks the govt if he may have some.

It is not admirable to live the type of lifestyle you desire if it requires stealing money from other people, be it simple robbery or through a third party IE the govt.

Just because the govt has set up social welfare programs does not mean that you should be looking to take advantage of them.

They are supposed to be for people who have come on hard times through no fault of their own.

They are not supposed to be for people who wish to lead a bohemian lifestyle because they think it is more spiritualy rewarding than the typical 9-5 grind most of us have to put up with.

By: Potter

Potter — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:28:25 +0000

Thank you Herbert and Flow.

RC21- I don’t see how leading the lifestyle one desires a la Herbert Browne, which includes much that ultimately benefits society as a whole means that one does not care about anyone else. And if you are not leading the lifestyle you desire- why not?

Herbert Browne’s history is admirable. First of all he did not take your hard earned money. When the government takes your money it’s no longer your money. It’s what you pay to be part of society.

The government provides you as well with what you need.

it seems that Herbert Browne took minimal advantage of what the government offered him while living mostly independently and very productively during that period. I would bet he paid back in spades, over the years, what he took.

What I find wrong with so many these days is that they expect the government to provide all sorts of things but don’t want to pay their share.

As far as vaccinations go ( and preventative health care in general)- it’s in everyone’s interest, the common good, to prevent illness and disease.

By: rc21

rc21 — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:38:02 +0000

So Herbert, You don’t have a problem taking my hard earned money so that you may lead the lifestyle that you desire.

You see this is what I find wrong with so many people, They really don’t care about anyone but themselves.

By: flow

flow — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:41:27 +0000

I’d like to add the power of integrity to the list.

By: flow

flow — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:39:58 +0000

I’m with you herbert browne!

I have a bit of a confession of my own. I once paid 180,000 dollars in a single year in income tax. I owned (without mortgagee) a 27-acre estate in a national scenic area. I was under 40 and “retired”. I won’t say I wasn’t happy; I was by any contemporary cultural measure or sense. I was self-medicating, alcohol mostly, not heavy, just enough to “relax” at night and “loosen up” to enjoy the companionship of my co-patriots, but enough to keep my conscience soaked and my most of my dreams at bay.

However, I made a few mistakes, I got rid of my TV. I turned off the radio and starting playing music. I stop taking the paper. I started getting up early to watch the sunrise. I began traveling to remote locations on the globe to walk in beautiful places, and meeting “impoverished” natives of many cultures (in their eyes I saw a spark and on their faces a genuine smile that was so unusually rare “where I come from.”). I began a descent into the recesses of my heart, a search for soul. I started reading, but mostly I just started listening to the wind, and bird songs, and watching deer graze. And I began to feel something stir inside of me, to awaken.

I don’t care much for “institutional” or organized religions. I prefer finding my own path. I think the bible makes great poetry, good literature and bad history.

Gradually, things changed in my life, mostly values. I took an inventory of my values and measured it against how I spent my time. I accepted personal responsibility for every thought, word and action in my life.

Today, I have a small house, a garden, and a beautiful, loving woman in my life. I’m the director of marketing and communication for a non-profit organization. I live in an urban area surrounded by the most awe-inspiring, amazing beauty one can imagine. I don’t make much money, I don’t pay much in tax, but I dwell in a place of deep contentment. Of course there is the odd moment of frustration, emptiness or confusion, but invariably each moment quickly morphs into instruction regarding power management (the power of intention, the power of imagination, the power of intuition, the power of now). In my life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are irrevocable and inalienable. Real happiness, real liberty.

Who was it that said, “seek and you shall find”?

By: herbert browne

herbert browne — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:28:36 +0000

I am reminded of some “words to live by”- from the Bible- something like “O Lord, be merciful to me, the sinner”… I got food stamps for my family & me for about 10 years (& welfare for a month of that time)… and WIC, too, for a few years… rented, all that time… never had work that lasted beyond a season, other than “self employment” (cutting wood to sell, fishing, harvesting mushrooms, selling produce from the garden- stuff like that). We lived with as little dependence on cash as possible. I “paid rent” by working for the owners of the properties we inhabited (reroofing one place, and digging a drainfield for the septic system that had never been “completely installed”… and pulling noxious weeds at another place- a farm- weeds that could kill cows & horses that grazed on them). We had no health insurance- and figured the best way to stay healthy was to learn about it. Our last four kids were born at home- no doc, no midwife- and that “saved” a little money. We made our own flour, our own bread, our own beer & wine, canned up several hundred quarts a season, dined on roadkill and fresh fish, crabs, mussels, berries, goat’s milk, eggs, apples & pears from old abandoned homesteads, grocery store dumpsters, wherever there was food. We “bought” Special stuff- frozen juices, nut butter, raisins, dairy products (cheese, yogurt, butter, etc), bananas & “foreign” fruits & vegetables, brown rice, condiments (tamari, etc), ovaltine, and the like, with our food stamps. Oh, yes- we got free inoculations, via WIC & “well baby” clinics, of the measles/mumps/pertussis variety… and eventually the polio vaccines, too- all on the government dole, bless ‘em! The most money I made in a single year from 1969 to 1982 was well within 4 digits… and my wife worked as mom and homemaker all that time- for us- (although she sold some crocheted hats & socks, through consignment, sometimes). So, it was a one-paycheck family, when there were checks.
It’s true that there’s so much opportunity, and so much wealth in this country that it’s hard not to accumulate stuff of value. Look in any of the myriad dumpsters around… simply overflowing with value & abundance! But the idea of “bettering” oneself, class-wise, by the “make more money, own more stuff, commune with successful people” route is, in my humble opinion, highly over-rated. (How much do you want to know about someone’s golf game, and wine preferences?) The poor, especially those who manage to achieve what the former president of Haiti sought for his countrymen, ie “Poverty with Dignity”, are more interesting, more likely to wax philosophical, and more grounded than the majority of those who are “well-off”… and quite likely more honest, as well (you know, that Dylan line about “to live outside the law you must be honest” is based on a shrewd observation).
There were no “vacations” in those years (unless activities like sitting by a beach fire while you extracted sea salt, and roasted mussels & potatoes counts as “vacation”)… and not a lot of unnecessary travel, either. (I realized, upon flying to a conference in SF in 1999 that it had been 32 years since I’d last boarded a plane.) There was also no household electric power- so no tv, refrigerator, baseboards, lightbulbs, etc. There were always a couple of flashlights that worked, and a car radio (hooked to a 6v battery) for “news from the outside” (we discovered NPR on AM in 1971, and CBS Radio Mystery Theater, too). We had kerosene lamps, water from the roof, an outhouse, a pantry, wood cookstove that also made hot water, wood heat (still do), a 20+yo pickup truck, a VW Beetle that got 37mpg… life was OK.
Am I repentant? Yes- for a fair number of actions & omissions… but not for making use of food stamps… not at all. Quite the opposite: I recommend to anyone that they take what the government has to offer in order to create enough ease in their lives to experience something that may be more essential to the pursuit of their personal growth than going to a “job” in order to take part in the cash economy. If having food stamps means being able to spend more time with your children, or learning to paint, or being able to volunteer for some non-profit whose goals match your own heartfelt desires,or studying a foreign tongue, or going fishing… whatever- go get the stamps- and more power to you.
I want to thank rc21 and others who have made possible my life of being able to raise my children while teaching them something, myself… and do it without depriving them (or me) of buttered toast & hot cocoa. But there are people who have EVEN MORE to thank rc21 and other hard-working Americans for- people at Boeing & Raytheon, Lockheed, Bechtel, GE, DuPont, etc (and their Stockholders!)- including a lot of folks at the Pentagon. I heard this morning that the annual Defense budget comes in around $700 billion- a year- & NOT counting the Iraq War budget (which is around 1/2 trillion dollars, at this juncture). If there are 300 million of us in the country, that works out (just the Defense budget) to around $2300 apiece- counting infants & schoolkids and everybody- not just from “taxpayers”. I imagine that the taxes that the government collects back from all the “gravy” that they provide to the Military-Industrial Complex amounts to more than is spent on the WIC & food stamp programs (but I don’t know that- just a guess). Maybe the only way that military spending will ever come down is if a great number of folks simply opt to make enough to cover their basic needs (& art supply habit, cello strings, etc)- and No More. This whole “Defense” & “Security” fetish is really about those with a lot to protect being able to feel safe to pursue the joys of wealth & prosperity. So, they should pay for these military & security ventures- not you & me. There are individuals in the country with billions of dollars (and that’s just counting the Money)… so they have billions to protect. What have I got to lose? Do I need “protection” from people 12 time zones away that our government has bombed back to the Stone Age? I don’t think so. I’d rather send them the contents of our industrial dumpsters, and let them rummage, like I have done, and build themselves a better life… or maybe they’re capable of coming up with “a better life” without any intrusion on my part. But I don’t need $2300 worth of “protection” a year from anybody- because I don’t have anything that valuable to lose. And I certainly don’t support the use of the tax money I send to the IRS (which is self-employment tax- bound for the Social Security pool) to be used to fund Pentagon spending, by using it as collateral against which the M-I Complex may borrow. Do you?
It’s all “the Government’s Money”- ALL of it. They print it, they decide how much, they defend it- and we simply use it. If the collective use of food stamps has deprived Boeing of a couple of Cruise missile sales per year, or bumped a single B-1 out of the Defense plan, well, so be it. I’m for more subsidized nut butter allotments and fewer battleships (which could be useful, maybe, as housing for the homeless- with playfields upstairs)… ^..^

By: whatamess

whatamess — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:27:13 +0000

I agree with RC21 100%. I would love to have more than one child, unfortunately, I have only one because that is what I can afford to support ON MY OWN. In our situation my husband has another child from a previous relationship he pays support for. No problem, I agree 100%. Problem is, the mother (same as kentucky mom here) seems to think it’s ok to continue to have children (she now has 2 more), and then go after my husband for more money because she doesn’t have enough for her first daughter. Well, go figure. Yes, my husband and I chose to have a child together, but it was based on what was left after he supported his daughter…and we never took away from her, or attempted to lower CS based on a new child. On the other hand, she, receives public assistance and gets all kinds of credits, etc…and expects us to support both her daughter and HER lifestyle with her other two children.

I support my son 100%. My son has autism, and even though it is difficult for us, I cannot justify getting SSI and not selling my house in order to give him the best of what he deserves. I also throughout my son’s diagnosis have found out that I am on that same autism/adhd area…(my son has both), yet I have had a job for 18+ years! Do I love my job? No! I don’t! But as a responsible adult, I know that what I like, what I can deal with and what I need to do in life, are very separate things…therefore, I stay…It is very hard to focus…Sometimes it takes me an entire day to “do nothing” because my mind wonders, but I think of my son and soon realize that whether I like it or not, I have to do it for him. Period.

We moved out of our comfortable area, where my parents were, my sisters/brothers, etc…just so that my husband could get a better paying job and bring us out of the whole his ex-wife put us under…we did and sacrificed because that’s what parents do. It is hard for us. We have nobody to take care of our son, therefore, we are with him 24/7, no adult time to think of…period. And now with his diagnosis, it’s even more difficult…but we do what we have to do. That’s what parents do. With that said, we understand that care for our son might be better where we used to live and therefore, we might have to go from a nice house to a one/two bedroom apartment because my husband’s ex-wife ruined his credit…is that our fault, no. Is it our son’s fault, no. But it SURE ISN’T the TAXPAYER’s fault! Therefore, we do what we have to do…and if it means we go to an apartment, that after working full time for over 18 years, making over 65K a year, just so that I can ensure a better future for our son, then that’s what we do.

By the way, it never ceases to amaze me when people complain about not having money to eat, want the tax-payers to pay their way…but have a computer and internet service…lovely…just lovely. Before you speak, I have it because my job pays for it, as it is required for my job…it’s not a luxury I chose to have.

By: rc21

rc21 — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:38:36 +0000

Kentucky mom, wev’e gone over this, People have moved from the begining of time in order to better their situation. You seem to make poor choices in your your attempts to relocate. Is that my fault?

You say relocating to a bigger city would not be good for your children. So instead of going where the jobs are you would rather have me help pay for you to stay in an area that is nice for your kids to grow up in but not condusive to better employment. No problem let me get out my check book. I’d hate to see your kids have to move to a different town.

Job training and upgrading education. Once again you seem intent on blaming others for your lack of education and job skills. This is no ones fault but your own. School is free up until grade 12. College is pretty cheap when you use the JC and state school route. There are also all types of trade schools for young men and women. If you did not follow this path when you finished high school it is your fault. There is also the service. This is how I was able to get some of my education. It is free. It seems you had a great chance of doing something with your nursing program but you were dropped. This is your fault not mine or the tax payer.

Yes your having 5 kids knowing you could not properly take care of them is a big issue. It speaks to personal responsibility. and accepting consequences for ones actions.

As I said earlier I think your a good person who is doing their best to raise a family, I’m not totally against you recieving govt aid seeing as to how there seems to be some health issues.

But go back and reread your posts. You seem to have a reason for all the things that have put you in the situation you are now in. With the exception of you and your husbands health issues,All came about through your actions.

You seem to have fallen prey to the liberal socialist brainwashing of the Democratic party.

Go out and do whatever you like. If things don’t work out don’t worry the govt will take care of you.Personal responsibility does not matter. We will provide welfare, housing, free education, free medical, food stamps, WIC, Head start, etc etc. The list is never ending. Just make sure you vote DEM come November.

The problem is none of these programs and entitlements are really free. They are paid for by the tax payer. People like me who try and act responsible and make decisions based on what they can afford and what they can’t. I call it common sense.

Sorry to sound so harsh but this sense of entitlement that people seem to have come to expect drives me crazy some times. It would be one thing if this was Cuba or some other country where oppertunities are limited, but in the US If you want to make it you can. I understand you have some health issues but honestly go back in time do you think you always made the right choices when you were younger and even more recently. I know I didn’t and have had to live with the consequences,

Good luck I hope things get better for you and your family.

By: rc21

rc21 — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:55:46 +0000

alabama mama,

I guess you like responding to people without even reading or comprehending what they have written.

Go back and read my posts. I believe I stated at least twice that people who are mentally or physically handicapped should be helped by the govt. In my june 14 5;28 post. I even state the govt could probably do more for the disabled.

By the way are you trying to tell me the govt gives you and your family only 320 a month. My guess is you are recieving much more in aid from the govt.

Has your husband applied for disability? Can you get on welfare? Do you recieve any subsidized housing? You also may be eligible for sec 8 assistance. Have you looked into WIC. Do your kids recieve any aid from the govt?

Ther are many govt programs out there that you can take advantage of.

By: KentuckyMom

KentuckyMom — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:45:31 +0000

rc 21

“For all others there is a funny concept called a job.”

Most on food stamps do work. We do. 40+ hrs a week.
*********************************************

“move”

relocating cost a lot of money if you have a family.
Where is this money going to come from.
relocating to a larger city would not be good for the kids.
Besides we have moved 5 times across country for better jobs.
It didnt work and because with every change we lost our friends and people who knew us the job possibilities went down.
We’ve learned that sometimes staying put and developing your contacts within the community you stand a better chance of landing a better job.
This works in small towns.
*********************************************

“upgrading your skills or training”

This also cost money and time…..where is this money going to come from?
with working 40 plus hrs a week there would have to be some extra time to go to the training.
We are older and we do need to sleep at least 5 to 6 hrs a night(we don’t always get this)
Need time to do the cooking from scratch.
Need time to wash the clothes out by hand.
Need time to WALK to my job from my husbands job and then back(only one car)
Need time to spend time with the kids, even though they are all above 12 yrs old now they still need and want time with us(strange huh?, teens that want to spend time with their parents!)

My husband is disabled.
He has ADHD and diabetes
His ADHD is really bad enough he could more then likely get disability but he does not want to. He wants to work.
The job he has now does not pay a lot not with the health insur. that comes right out of it and the life insurance.
But it does have health and life and a retirement plan.
Also with his ADHD he had a horrible problem keeping jobs in the first half of our marriage.
However because of the nature of this job he as been able to stay on task for 12 yrs and keep this job..
Oh yeah, he also had to herniated disk in his neck about 19 years ago and had to have surgery on them.
He can not do heavy lifting.

And me?
Well I have ADD but not any where as bad and others.
I did try nursing school when I was just out of high school and couldn’t make it.
I got a B average on all of my classes but at the time I was so shy I could not talk to my fellow students let alone the patients. I had no self confidence at all. So I was dropped from the program.

Since then besides raising the kids(my first from my first marriage was handicapped(died 4 yrs ago) and after the age of 6 my ex did not pay any child support at all!) I’ve worked at low wage jobs.
Before I had all of the other 5 kids I did get a 2 yrs degree with the intent of going to a 4 yr school in Utah(elementary special ed) but got pregnant with twins.
This was a shock because we had tried for over 2 yrs to get pregnant.
I had every complication you could think of while pregnant and was put on bed rest. They tried to come 10 weeks early but with bed rest we gave them another 5 weeks. While they were born 5 weeks early by emergency c-section they were healthy enough to come home when only 4 days old. (4lbs 6oz and 5lbs 6oz).

I never got back to college after that.
I know you don’t agree with us having had five kids together but it is a very deeply held religious belief that I really don’t want to get into a debate over because it would only cause hurt feelings.

Once the kids got older and could watch the younger ones I was back in the work force…but once again for low paying jobs.

I did try to get my CDA(child development associate) but the daycare I was working at closed before I could finish. I could have worked at another daycare but the pay around here for it is under $6 an hr.
So when I was offered a job at our local hospital making $8 an hr full time I took it. Been on this job for about 4 weeks now.
With this job there is the option of moving on to other jobs(higher paying) within the hospital when openings become available.
This is a house keeping job.
I still want my CDA and run a daycare out of my home but that is not in the picture right now as we need the money.

rc21 can you see that no everyone on food stamps is lazy and haven’t thought things out? Can you see that most work? Most have an education?
Most are not on it for a living but for survival?
Most are trying to get off.

Thanks for listening
KentuckyMom

By: Brian Dunbar

Brian Dunbar — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:53:05 +0000

brian, if youâ€™ll notice, i said â€œaboutâ€â€¦

Sure. I’m used to the phrase ‘do the math’ being followed by hard numbers. Probably just the company I keep.

By: alabama_mama

alabama_mama — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 00:47:40 +0000

brian, if you’ll notice, i said “about”…

By: Brian Dunbar

Brian Dunbar — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:59:34 +0000

Our current monthly allotment is $340.00 a month, so you do the math and tell me what that averages out to per person for a week. A bout 20 bucks

$19.83 per week, assuming a four-person family and a thirty day month.

If you’re going to say ‘do the math’ it helps if you do the math as well.