Comments on: The Children of the Corn Subsidies http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/ Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:35:29 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: jennhx.com » this ain’t corny http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-20022 jennhx.com » this ain’t corny Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:00:39 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-20022 [...] rful Terry Gross really draws out her subjects and creates a riveting, flowing interview.) Michael Pollan & others on Radio Open Source The book The Omnivore’ [...] [...] rful Terry Gross really draws out her subjects and creates a riveting, flowing interview.) Michael Pollan & others on Radio Open Source The book The Omnivore’ [...]

]]> By: the form of function » Blog Archive » So sweet it kills me http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-13362 the form of function » Blog Archive » So sweet it kills me Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:11:06 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-13362 [...] a cycle. Check out these articles, they are good all-purpose reads for the HFCS situation: The Children of the Corn Subsidies- a [...] [...] a cycle. Check out these articles, they are good all-purpose reads for the HFCS situation: The Children of the Corn Subsidies- a [...]

]]> By: Beam Reach » Blog Archive » The City Has Eyes http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-12509 Beam Reach » Blog Archive » The City Has Eyes Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:30:47 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-12509 [...] Anyways, the game is hilarious and it is free to try, I highly recommend checking it out. The Children of the Corn Subsidies: The May [...] [...] Anyways, the game is hilarious and it is free to try, I highly recommend checking it out. The Children of the Corn Subsidies: The May [...]

]]> By: allison http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11090 allison Thu, 11 May 2006 22:51:12 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11090 I'm not sure that the incomes you mention are only from the one crop. This farmer said he also grows soy beans. Small family farms are not making profits these days. Except maybe some niche market farms. I’m not sure that the incomes you mention are only from the one crop. This farmer said he also grows soy beans.

Small family farms are not making profits these days. Except maybe some niche market farms.

]]> By: injapan2 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11062 injapan2 Thu, 11 May 2006 16:26:45 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11062 Sorry, the income is not farmer's income but the income from the farm itself. (Does not include any side jobs or other sources of income.) Sorry, the income is not farmer’s income but the income from the farm itself. (Does not include any side jobs or other sources of income.)

]]> By: injapan2 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11061 injapan2 Thu, 11 May 2006 16:22:24 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11061 I think a very key point was missed which I noticed while listening to the prices of corn production on my podcast player. According to the farmer on the program, he received $35,000 in subsidies, and then stated that the statistical cost of growing corn is somewhere around $2 per bushel. Later he stated the selling price of corn at $1.50 a bushel (my numbers may be slightly off, but near enough for my point). Therefore a farmer woulding be loosing $.5 a bushel, and that would mean all our farmer friend and his fellow farmers making corn would be the poorest of the poor. (Average amount of corn bushels per acre in Illinois= 145 x 300 stated acres the farmer said he had at -.5 dollars an acre -$21,750 for the said farmer's farm yields, leaving him with $13,250 of the subsidy. However, the income of the average farm in Illinois is $90,700 for 2004 (a good year) and $43,600 for 2005. I could not tell if this included subsidies or not. (http://www.thesoydailyclub.com/Farm&Market/farmincome01102006.asp) However, it does easily show that the information and tear jerking statistics given from the farmer were misleading and mistaken at best. Farmers make profits without subsidies (though how much is vague) and that his estimate of costs was obviously fantasy. I think a very key point was missed which I noticed while listening to the prices of corn production on my podcast player. According to the farmer on the program, he received $35,000 in subsidies, and then stated that the statistical cost of growing corn is somewhere around $2 per bushel. Later he stated the selling price of corn at $1.50 a bushel (my numbers may be slightly off, but near enough for my point). Therefore a farmer woulding be loosing $.5 a bushel, and that would mean all our farmer friend and his fellow farmers making corn would be the poorest of the poor. (Average amount of corn bushels per acre in Illinois= 145 x 300 stated acres the farmer said he had at -.5 dollars an acre -$21,750 for the said farmer’s farm yields, leaving him with $13,250 of the subsidy. However, the income of the average farm in Illinois is $90,700 for 2004 (a good year) and $43,600 for 2005. I could not tell if this included subsidies or not. (http://www.thesoydailyclub.com/Farm&Market/farmincome01102006.asp) However, it does easily show that the information and tear jerking statistics given from the farmer were misleading and mistaken at best. Farmers make profits without subsidies (though how much is vague) and that his estimate of costs was obviously fantasy.

]]> By: prock http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11057 prock Thu, 11 May 2006 15:39:53 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11057 I think the corn farmer hit the nail on the head. The answer is that we simply have to pay a lot more for our food - which should be sustainably produced. I think the corn farmer hit the nail on the head. The answer is that we simply have to pay a lot more for our food – which should be sustainably produced.

]]> By: khandro http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11042 khandro Thu, 11 May 2006 06:05:20 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11042 Oops, meant to suggest that we hear from Paul Hawken on this (or any!) topic of this nature. Oops, meant to suggest that we hear from Paul Hawken on this (or any!) topic of this nature.

]]> By: khandro http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11041 khandro Thu, 11 May 2006 05:46:28 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11041 Great program, but I only ever catch the last few minutes. This time I was listening intently to the non-rational/corn/ethanol/fuel/consumer price of gasoline part at the end and someone, I'd like to know who (because I don't remember it clearly enough), went on to say exactly the thing I didn't even know I was hoping to hear: We have it all wrong. The way to rationalize these relationships is to consider the total (read hidden) cost of our food. The fuel (of any source) that goes into getting food onto our tables is not adequately or accurately reflected in the price of that food. We want it cheap, we buy it cheap, but the real cost is staggering. I don't have a national much less an international solution to a problem of mind-numbing complexity, rife with price fixing and corruption as well as aching need, but I do something, have been doing something for decades that I think makes good sense economically, health-wise, and in the context of "think globally act locally", something I take very seriously (while trying not to take myself that seriously, folks!) It is simply that I try to eat pursuant to my latitude. I love bananas and citrus but rarely buy them. Out of season strawberries from Mexico taste like the cardboard they come in so I wait till they're ripe locally. What would the Mexican farmers grow if not strawberries for wealthy gringos up north? Maybe the corn they need for their own families and industries. The entire food supply/distribution/consumption pattern, as odious as it is, boils down to what we (those of us with enough resource and resources to even consider such things; we're not watching our children starve after all) are willing to do without. I can't do without coffee yet, but I'd be willing to try if it meant that acreage in Columbia in coffee would be turned into acreage for local foodstuffs. Likewise, I'd like to see acres of fertilized/pesticided/overwatered lawns, golf courses (sorry folks, personal opinion here!), and other swathes of fertile mid-latitude lands like ours turned into local fruit, berry and nut orchards, as well as community vegetable gardens. There is no intrinsic reason besides habit, wealth, and industry (an unholy trinity if ever) that keeps us wedded and bedded to fuel dependency linked to food supply. Other cultures and nations may not have the flexibility or luxury of these ruminations, but we do, I do. Without a sense of personal connection, even just a person of one, a kind of hopelessness can set in and then nothing changes. It was just that hoplessness that I was feeling, yet again, near the end of your program and then the speaker spoke and I nodded and agreed and was prompted to write. Thanks, and if someone knows who made those comments, in the last few minutes, I'd like to know. Great program, but I only ever catch the last few minutes. This time I was listening intently to the non-rational/corn/ethanol/fuel/consumer price of gasoline part at the end and someone, I’d like to know who (because I don’t remember it clearly enough), went on to say exactly the thing I didn’t even know I was hoping to hear: We have it all wrong. The way to rationalize these relationships is to consider the total (read hidden) cost of our food. The fuel (of any source) that goes into getting food onto our tables is not adequately or accurately reflected in the price of that food. We want it cheap, we buy it cheap, but the real cost is staggering. I don’t have a national much less an international solution to a problem of mind-numbing complexity, rife with price fixing and corruption as well as aching need, but I do something, have been doing something for decades that I think makes good sense economically, health-wise, and in the context of “think globally act locally”, something I take very seriously (while trying not to take myself that seriously, folks!) It is simply that I try to eat pursuant to my latitude. I love bananas and citrus but rarely buy them. Out of season strawberries from Mexico taste like the cardboard they come in so I wait till they’re ripe locally. What would the Mexican farmers grow if not strawberries for wealthy gringos up north? Maybe the corn they need for their own families and industries. The entire food supply/distribution/consumption pattern, as odious as it is, boils down to what we (those of us with enough resource and resources to even consider such things; we’re not watching our children starve after all) are willing to do without. I can’t do without coffee yet, but I’d be willing to try if it meant that acreage in Columbia in coffee would be turned into acreage for local foodstuffs. Likewise, I’d like to see acres of fertilized/pesticided/overwatered lawns, golf courses (sorry folks, personal opinion here!), and other swathes of fertile mid-latitude lands like ours turned into local fruit, berry and nut orchards, as well as community vegetable gardens. There is no intrinsic reason besides habit, wealth, and industry (an unholy trinity if ever) that keeps us wedded and bedded to fuel dependency linked to food supply. Other cultures and nations may not have the flexibility or luxury of these ruminations, but we do, I do. Without a sense of personal connection, even just a person of one, a kind of hopelessness can set in and then nothing changes. It was just that hoplessness that I was feeling, yet again, near the end of your program and then the speaker spoke and I nodded and agreed and was prompted to write. Thanks, and if someone knows who made those comments, in the last few minutes, I’d like to know.

]]> By: Jon Garfunkel http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11039 Jon Garfunkel Thu, 11 May 2006 05:15:19 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11039 odchere-- the NAFTA angle was discussed this evening. Somebody (Pollan?) noted that we're getting fatter while Mexicans are going hungrey (since they are no longer being protected from our subsidized corn). odchere– the NAFTA angle was discussed this evening. Somebody (Pollan?) noted that we’re getting fatter while Mexicans are going hungrey (since they are no longer being protected from our subsidized corn).

]]> By: Nikos http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11038 Nikos Thu, 11 May 2006 05:09:38 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11038 Don’t bother calling me a one-trick pony: I’ll do it myself. But not before pointing out this: All that talk in tonight’s show about mindlessly counterproductive subsidies isn’t the fault of the Donkeys or the Elephants. It’s the work of a Two Party State whose legislators are elected not by party but <i>individually</i>. They gotta bring home the bacon (or pork) right? It’s not really their fault: it’s the result of our unthinking <i>acceptance</i> of the Two Party State. It’s a result of our faithful <i>acceptance</i> of a faithless system wherein lobbyists serving the corporate interests trump anything resembling policy innovation between multiple parties – a political ‘ideas’ competition that would draw the most votes to the most sensibly creative public policies. Do you want more of the same? Of course not. Then why accept this hopelessly crooked system? The solution is a revision of the Constitution. Turn the House into a state-of-the-art parliament answerable not to the corporate interests represented by lobbyists but to the People that the Two Party State claims but fails to represent. And give the corrupted Presidency and the Senate the fate they deserve: ceremonial and rhetorical roles. (We can let the Senate continue to do investigations though, since they’re historically proficient at it.) One Trick Pony Nikos, signing out (for now). Don’t bother calling me a one-trick pony: I’ll do it myself. But not before pointing out this:
All that talk in tonight’s show about mindlessly counterproductive subsidies isn’t the fault of the Donkeys or the Elephants. It’s the work of a Two Party State whose legislators are elected not by party but individually.
They gotta bring home the bacon (or pork) right?

It’s not really their fault: it’s the result of our unthinking acceptance of the Two Party State.
It’s a result of our faithful acceptance of a faithless system wherein lobbyists serving the corporate interests trump anything resembling policy innovation between multiple parties – a political ‘ideas’ competition that would draw the most votes to the most sensibly creative public policies.

Do you want more of the same?
Of course not.
Then why accept this hopelessly crooked system?

The solution is a revision of the Constitution.

Turn the House into a state-of-the-art parliament answerable not to the corporate interests represented by lobbyists but to the People that the Two Party State claims but fails to represent.

And give the corrupted Presidency and the Senate the fate they deserve: ceremonial and rhetorical roles. (We can let the Senate continue to do investigations though, since they’re historically proficient at it.)

One Trick Pony Nikos, signing out (for now).

]]> By: Steve Wilson » Blog Archive » Taken over by Corn http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11037 Steve Wilson » Blog Archive » Taken over by Corn Thu, 11 May 2006 04:55:25 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11037 [...] Corn. It’s amazing how pervasive it is and how much of our economy is based on it. http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/ [...] [...] Corn. It’s amazing how pervasive it is and how much of our economy is based on it. http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/ [...]

]]> By: e090 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11031 e090 Thu, 11 May 2006 02:32:32 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11031 Brazil is not a panacea. They are clear-cutting forests to be able to grow the sugar cane they use to produce ethanol. They don't use corn which is less efficient. To offset the US' domestic oil thirst, we would have to have sugar cane crops bigger than California -- if we use corn it would be a crop larger than Texas. The bigger question is whether the carbon chain should be used at all. Whether we should talking more about the electric society with the advancements in battery technology and not stumble around with ethanol and/or hydrogen. http://www.centredaily.com/mld/aberdeennews/news/14470921.htm?source=rss&channel=aberdeennews_news http://256.com/gray/blog/2006/04/#25_1 Brazil is not a panacea. They are clear-cutting forests to be able to grow the sugar cane they use to produce ethanol. They don’t use corn which is less efficient. To offset the US’ domestic oil thirst, we would have to have sugar cane crops bigger than California — if we use corn it would be a crop larger than Texas. The bigger question is whether the carbon chain should be used at all. Whether we should talking more about the electric society with the advancements in battery technology and not stumble around with ethanol and/or hydrogen.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/aberdeennews/news/14470921.htm?source=rss&channel=aberdeennews_news
http://256.com/gray/blog/2006/04/#25_1

]]> By: odchere http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11018 odchere Wed, 10 May 2006 23:54:13 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11018 Hey, Christopher, let's get off of the ethanol conversation. Lets talk about the real NAFTA story. The corn stocks we dumped on Africa are parallel to dumping our dried milk on Jamaica, thereby destroying their milk farm production; we also did that with bananas when Dole insisted that we cut Jamaica out of the UK "most favored Colonial nation" list for buying their bananas.....thereby destroying Jamaica's banana industry. Why are we telling only half of the story here? Hey, Christopher, let’s get off of the ethanol conversation.
Lets talk about the real NAFTA story. The corn stocks we dumped on Africa are parallel to dumping our dried milk on Jamaica, thereby destroying their milk farm production; we also did that with bananas when Dole insisted that we cut Jamaica out of the UK “most favored Colonial nation” list for buying their bananas…..thereby destroying Jamaica’s banana industry.
Why are we telling only half of the story here?

]]> By: mulp http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11017 mulp Wed, 10 May 2006 23:52:15 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11017 Did I just hear the biggest bunch of cow hooey ever? There is a shortage of ethanol used to make gasoline according to the mandate so the refiners can refine oil to make the gasoline. So the refiners are backing up the tanker load of oil because they can't refine them, so the tanker companies are charging higher shipping rates, presumabley, and then to get a lower price on shipping the oil producers are rushing more oil into the market but charging higher prices to pay for the shipping and making the oil more scarce, and that is while oil on the world market is three times what it was a few years ago. Ah, come on. bs. I might beleive the ethanol takes more energy to produce, if not for Brazil profitably competing with gasoline using farm produced ethanol without subsidies. Did I just hear the biggest bunch of cow hooey ever?

There is a shortage of ethanol used to make gasoline according to the mandate so the refiners can refine oil to make the gasoline. So the refiners are backing up the tanker load of oil because they can’t refine them, so the tanker companies are charging higher shipping rates, presumabley, and then to get a lower price on shipping the oil producers are rushing more oil into the market but charging higher prices to pay for the shipping and making the oil more scarce, and that is while oil on the world market is three times what it was a few years ago.

Ah, come on. bs.

I might beleive the ethanol takes more energy to produce, if not for Brazil profitably competing with gasoline using farm produced ethanol without subsidies.

]]> By: odchere http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11016 odchere Wed, 10 May 2006 23:49:18 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11016 Also, I just remembered the rest of the Monsanto seed story referenced above. Monsanto patented the Terminator Seed which self-destructs after one growing season. In nature, seeds are saved from growing season to growing season over millennia. African and Indian farmers and their UN representatives strongly objected to releasing this seed. Monsanto was trying to have the US Congress mandate the sale of this brand to nations receiving our foreigh aid for agriculature. Also, I just remembered the rest of the Monsanto seed story referenced above.
Monsanto patented the Terminator Seed which self-destructs after one growing season. In nature, seeds are saved from growing season to growing season over millennia. African and Indian farmers and their UN representatives strongly objected to releasing this seed. Monsanto was trying to have the US Congress mandate the sale of this brand to nations receiving our foreigh aid for agriculature.

]]> By: h wally http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11015 h wally Wed, 10 May 2006 23:47:54 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11015 halliburton+cronies. No connection there. Has our guest heard of:Halliburton corn farm and ethonol production corp.? halliburton+cronies. No connection there. Has our guest heard of:Halliburton corn farm and ethonol production corp.?

]]> By: JP http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11014 JP Wed, 10 May 2006 23:45:31 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11014 ...But aren't we ultimately paying higher prices? We all pay taxes, and the subsidies come from that collective pool of money we toss to the government anyway. Maybe the subsidies should be re-thunk to account for some of the externalities. Same goes for the ethanol project. …But aren’t we ultimately paying higher prices? We all pay taxes, and the subsidies come from that collective pool of money we toss to the government anyway. Maybe the subsidies should be re-thunk to account for some of the externalities. Same goes for the ethanol project.

]]> By: bruce.a.mchenry http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11013 bruce.a.mchenry Wed, 10 May 2006 23:41:00 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11013 (coment cut off again - it must have been the symbol for "less than") However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying less than 1 billion liters of ethanol to what would be the current global demand of equivalent 4 trillion liters of CH3COOH. (coment cut off again – it must have been the symbol for “less than”) However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying less than 1 billion liters of ethanol to what would be the current global demand of equivalent 4 trillion liters of CH3COOH.

]]> By: bruce.a.mchenry http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11012 bruce.a.mchenry Wed, 10 May 2006 23:38:33 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11012 (last comment cut off) ... However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying (last comment cut off) … However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying

]]> By: h wally http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11011 h wally Wed, 10 May 2006 23:38:09 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11011 I'm for it keelhaul. Mother earth news has been pushing these vehicles for years. I’m for it keelhaul. Mother earth news has been pushing these vehicles for years.

]]> By: JP http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11010 JP Wed, 10 May 2006 23:36:44 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11010 Never mind the trickle down externalities (ie farming corn to fuel beef production), the real price of corn will likely NEVER include the environmental costs of degraded farmland, runoff to water bodies, etc. Never mind the trickle down externalities (ie farming corn to fuel beef production), the real price of corn will likely NEVER include the environmental costs of degraded farmland, runoff to water bodies, etc.

]]> By: bruce.a.mchenry http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11009 bruce.a.mchenry Wed, 10 May 2006 23:35:39 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11009 USDA's Office of Energy Policy and New Uses put out a study a couple of years ago (unfortunately the link has gone bad). There was a very wide range on the value of total energy input vs energy value of alcohol derived from corn. One would reasonably assume that it is in their interest to make ethanol look good and the average energy input:output quoted in the study was 1.34. At 150 bushels corn per acre (a somewhat futuristic and fertilizer intensive yield) somewhat less than 400 gallons per acre, every square mile of about 8 states the size of Iowa would have to be planted with corn to fuel all cars (not counting trucks) with 100% ethanol today. [120000000000 / (400 * 640 * 55,000)] Then, given the optimistic input:output ratio, WE WOULD STILL NEED 1/1.34 = 0.75 AS MUCH OTHER ENERGY INPUT. The summary says, "Ethanol production uses abundant supplies of coal and natural gas to convert corn into a premium liquid fuel that can displace imported oil." Coal may be abundant but is a major CO2 generator and polluting source. If we were to use ethanol to make ethanol, legislators could "make farmers happy" in 8 * 1.34 / (1.34 - 1) = 32 states the size of Iowa. Maybe if we first burn enough coal to make ethanol then global warming could make Canada a much better place to grow corn... The fact that Brazil is able to export ethanol economically is interesting. The economics of tropical sugar cane ethanol are apparently much better. However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying USDA’s Office of Energy Policy and New Uses put out a study a couple of years ago (unfortunately the link has gone bad). There was a very wide range on the value of total energy input vs energy value of alcohol derived from corn. One would reasonably assume that it is in their interest to make ethanol look good and the average energy input:output quoted in the study was 1.34.

At 150 bushels corn per acre (a somewhat futuristic and fertilizer intensive yield) somewhat less than 400 gallons per acre, every square mile of about 8 states the size of Iowa would have to be planted with corn to fuel all cars (not counting trucks) with 100% ethanol today. [120000000000 / (400 * 640 * 55,000)] Then, given the optimistic input:output ratio, WE WOULD STILL NEED 1/1.34 = 0.75 AS MUCH OTHER ENERGY INPUT.

The summary says, “Ethanol production uses abundant supplies of coal and natural gas to convert corn into a premium liquid fuel that can displace imported oil.” Coal may be abundant but is a major CO2 generator and polluting source.

If we were to use ethanol to make ethanol, legislators could “make farmers happy” in 8 * 1.34 / (1.34 – 1) = 32 states the size of Iowa. Maybe if we first burn enough coal to make ethanol then global warming could make Canada a much better place to grow corn…

The fact that Brazil is able to export ethanol economically is interesting. The economics of tropical sugar cane ethanol are apparently much better. However, one has to wonder what will happen to the rain forests (and the rain) if Brazil goes from supplying

]]> By: keelhaul http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11008 keelhaul Wed, 10 May 2006 23:34:36 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11008 I haven't yet heard anything about methanol fueled vehicles; there's a lot of grabage and pig poop out there. Comments welcome. I haven’t yet heard anything about methanol fueled vehicles; there’s a lot of grabage and pig poop out there. Comments welcome.

]]> By: allison http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11007 allison Wed, 10 May 2006 23:33:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11007 Why do we feel so entitled to everything being cheap? Why aren't we forced to pay the real cost for producing things? Why do we feel so entitled to everything being cheap? Why aren’t we forced to pay the real cost for producing things?

]]> By: odchere http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11005 odchere Wed, 10 May 2006 23:29:59 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11005 Comment about the genetic modification of our corn stock and the resultant drop in our foreign grain sales due to boycotts of GEF, or GMF by nations such as Japan, Western Europe. Comment about the genetic modification of our corn stock and the resultant drop in our foreign grain sales due to boycotts of GEF, or GMF by nations such as Japan, Western Europe.

]]> By: h wally http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11004 h wally Wed, 10 May 2006 23:29:33 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11004 Speaking of subsaties has anyone heard of Halliburton corn farm and ethanol production corp. Is there anything they're not involved in. If you want to have some fun sometime just search: halliburton+----- insert almost any word and you'll find something. Speaking of subsaties has anyone heard of Halliburton corn farm and ethanol production corp. Is there anything they’re not involved in. If you want to have some fun sometime just search: halliburton+—– insert almost any word and you’ll find something.

]]> By: stinkyralph http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11001 stinkyralph Wed, 10 May 2006 23:20:01 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11001 only beef i have is re: engineering cattle to run on corn. the modern cow is totally man-made. we're just continuing to tweak the design. only beef i have is re: engineering cattle to run on corn. the modern cow is totally man-made. we’re just continuing to tweak the design.

]]> By: h wally http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-11000 h wally Wed, 10 May 2006 23:19:36 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-11000 Hello Hello

]]> By: h wally http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/comment-page-2/#comment-10999 h wally Wed, 10 May 2006 23:19:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-children-of-the-corn-subsidies/#comment-10999 halliburton + corn halliburton + corn

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