The Lost Roth Interview
I want to find out more about the Philip Roth article (or was it an interview) that was unpublished or suppressed. Any links or info will be appreciated.
Elling, in a comment to Open Source, September 7, 2006.
This was a common request after last night’s show. Apparently, that elusive Roth interview struck you as much as it did Chris and our guests.
23.40
[I'm reminded of] a remarkable interview that Philip Roth gave to The Independent in London a year after 9/11….The curious thing is that this interview very quickly disappeared off the web, which is where I first saw it.
Christopher Lydon
Chris loves his own printout of the article enough to keep it under lock and key and armored truck and three-headed dog. He swears these quotes are the best of it.
JEAN-LOUIS TURLIN: Have we properly assessed what happened on September 11?
PHILIP ROTH: I really don’t know, and I don’t care. That interests me as a citizen, but not as a novelist. September 11 is not something that I can draw on in an imaginative level. The only story that I can take from it is the kitsch in all its horror — not the horror of what’s happened, but the great distortion of what’s happened. It’s almost embarrassing, the kitschification of 3,000 people’s deaths. Other cities have experienced far worse catastrophes. America itself has inflicted some in its past, even if it was for the right reasons — I’m not a pacifist. One wouldn’t dream of slighting these people, it is awful, but we need to keep a sense of proportion about these things. What we’ve been witnessing since September 11 is an orgy of national narcissism and a gratuitous sense of victimisation that is repellent. And it doesn’t stop. Even now, it’s impossible to watch a baseball game without having to listen to “God Bless America” beforehand or without being asked to remember “our heroes.” I feel like saying: stop, dignity demands that you stop it.
Philip Roth, in an interview with The Independent, October 16, 2002.
25.20
Hey! You rock, Philip! I’ll sign off to that one. One of the horrors of what happened was the blown opportunity of what seemed possible on September 12….It wasn’t about America surviving its narcisistic wound by proving that it was the one hyperpower left, yet it got reduced to that.
Art Spiegelman
TURLIN: It has been said many times that with September 11, the United States lost its innocence.
ROTH: What innocence? That’s so naive. From 1668 to 1865, we had slavery in this country. Then, from 1865 to 1955, a society marked by brutal segregation. What innocence? I don’t really know what people are talking about.
TURLIN: Does that revolt you? Do Bush’s declarations revolt you?
ROTH: Oh, everything revolts me [laughs]! Not out of my superiority, and I hope not our of righteousness, but language is always a lie, especially public language. And that’s why Norman Mailer and myself and others are trying to counter the untruths, the lies of our writing.
Philip Roth, in an interview with The Independent, October 16, 2002.
43.55
Seems to me, that’s what we desperately hunger for: artistic language from people beyond the fray….that will take the play away from all the political and media manipulations of this thing, which as you say is sort of an event that’s been like a harpoon in our heads and it’s supposed to stay there forever.
Christopher Lydon
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September 8th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
“PHILIP ROTH: I really don’t know, and I don’t care. That interests me as a citizen, but not as a novelist. September 11 is not something that I can draw on in an imaginative level.”
Let’s remembrer the distinction Roth makes between fictional representation and actual events when discussing his views of 9/11.
September 9th, 2006 at 1:22 am
I believe that an important reason this event has had an out of proportion effect is that they struck our ultimate phallic symbols. Not just phallic symbols of America but of the West, of Capitalism. Now we feel emasculated and we are reacting accordingly.
September 9th, 2006 at 6:55 am
There is another bit of the Independent interview here: Philip Roth on 9/11 Kitsch
September 9th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
“Now we feel emasculated and we are reacting accordingly.”
Spare us your store front psychologizing.
The murder of about three thousand of your fellow citizens is not enought to make you angry?
September 9th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
“9/11 Kitsch?”
Is there is not also anti “9/11″ kitsch?
September 9th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
I did not expect to like this show – no offense intended. I’ve heard too much discussion of 9/11 that makes my eyes glaze over, not because I don’t care about the deaths of thousands of people, but because, usually, I cannot relate to what I hear. When Art Spiegelman spoke, I felt instantly more awake and interested. And when Chris read the excerpt from the Roth interview, I felt great relief and appreciation. Generally, I listen to and read a lot of left wing commentary about the politics in this country, but this was powerful in a different way, and I’m not sure exactly what the impact was. I felt grateful to hear people say things that made so much sense, that felt familiar, to know I was not alone. I used to work with children who had been abused. What the Bush machine does to people reminds me a lot of what happens in families where someone is terrorizing everyone in the house, when someone imposes an absolutely crazy view on everyone in the family and it becomes dangerous to be the person who is still able to have his or her own thoughts. When Chris spoke Roth’s words, it reminded me of being in that dangerous situation and hearing the sane voice that breaks through the isolation in a crazy family and gives someone hope that there is a world other than the one you’ve been forced to live in. That’s what art does for us. The “innocence” we lose, as far as I can see, is about losing the denial and distortion that is part of living with a version of reality that is nuts.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
I signed up here just so I could leave a comment on the Philip Roth piece that Christopher Lydon read the other night. I cannot express how much of a relief it was to hear those words. It often seems that we are on a crazy funhouse ride, with those guys at the wheel giving directions in some kind of wild jibberish and everyone around cheering them and jumping on as fast as they can go. Roth’s words were like a pure breath of air to a person drowning, a glimpse of stillness, a realization that after all this is a crazy funhouse ride, and it’s possible to step off and feel some relief, if only for a little while. Thank Mr. Roth for his clairty and willingness to call it as he sees it.
Thank Mr. Lydon for sharing it.
September 12th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
[...] ces Online » TV still reigns in Brazil, but here comes YouTube (tags: youtube politics) The Lost Roth Interview I love Philip Roth, and his interviews are always fantastic. (ta [...]
September 24th, 2006 at 8:11 am
Weeks after this discussion: On lannan.org, Arundhati Roy (Booker Prize winner for THE GOD OF SMALL THINGS, and author of many decent political essays that have been compiled in books) gave a speech in September 2002, called COME SEPTEMBER. You can listen to it (or get the transcript in a PDF) through the Lannan audioarchives. She covers a lot of territory, but does a wonderful job of putting 9/11 in perspective.