Comments on: The NSA’s New New Phone Database http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/ Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:23:24 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Steve Article http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-162863 Steve Article Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:15:31 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-162863 I am unable to hear the audio clearly.. Sound breaks in between.. <a href="http://www.freeuniquearticles.com" rel="nofollow">Article Directory</a> I am unable to hear the audio clearly.. Sound breaks in between..

Article Directory

]]> By: Creepy Sleepy Show 112 - Our 2nd Anniversary; also: America as Empire Part Two | Creepy Sleepy http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-162773 Creepy Sleepy Show 112 - Our 2nd Anniversary; also: America as Empire Part Two | Creepy Sleepy Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:42:11 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-162773 [...] decide, based on the opinion of the DoJ’s Office of Legal Counsel, that the NSA’s warrantless surveillance program is illegal. When it comes time to sign a presidential order to reauthorize the program, John [...] [...] decide, based on the opinion of the DoJ’s Office of Legal Counsel, that the NSA’s warrantless surveillance program is illegal. When it comes time to sign a presidential order to reauthorize the program, John [...]

]]> By: The Natural Approach To Explosive Weight Loss. | 7Wins.eu http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-142787 The Natural Approach To Explosive Weight Loss. | 7Wins.eu Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:54:29 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-142787 [...] "> Five Ounces of Pain | Pain Poll: The Staff of 5 Oz. Breaks Live TUF 7 Season FinaleOpen Source » Blog Archive » The NSA’s New New Phon [...] [...] “>
Five Ounces of Pain | Pain Poll: The Staff of 5 Oz. Breaks Live TUF 7 Season FinaleOpen Source » Blog Archive » The NSA’s New New Phon [...]

]]> By: Around the Podosphere A Little Farther : Evil Genius Chronicles http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-49518 Around the Podosphere A Little Farther : Evil Genius Chronicles Sun, 08 Apr 2007 15:13:44 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-49518 [...] s with those interviews. I had decided to give it another try last year and downloaded the episode where he talked about the NSA wiretapping and included William Gibson. I [...] [...] s with those interviews. I had decided to give it another try last year and downloaded the episode where he talked about the NSA wiretapping and included William Gibson. I [...]

]]> By: danwinckler.com » Big Brother? So what. http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-40347 danwinckler.com » Big Brother? So what. Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:19:34 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-40347 [...] ties. //end plug If you’re curious about the ongoing NSA wiretapping, I found this Open Source episode from May 11, 2006 an enlightening and entertaining outline of [...] [...] ties. //end plug If you’re curious about the ongoing NSA wiretapping, I found this Open Source episode from May 11, 2006 an enlightening and entertaining outline of [...]

]]> By: inversão dos tratores at Caveat Emptor http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-15423 inversão dos tratores at Caveat Emptor Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:02:34 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-15423 [...] i seus trabalhos excessivamente permeados de um pessimismo tecnofóbico. Mas em tempos de escutas telefônicas ilegais e oficiais de segurança ameaçando jogar fora 12 an [...] [...] i seus trabalhos excessivamente permeados de um pessimismo tecnofóbico. Mas em tempos de escutas telefônicas ilegais e oficiais de segurança ameaçando jogar fora 12 an [...]

]]> By: inductio :: inversão dos tratores :: August :: 2006 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-15083 inductio :: inversão dos tratores :: August :: 2006 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:11:22 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-15083 [...] ei seus trabalhos excessivamente permeados de um pessimismo tecnofóbico. Mas em tempos de escutas telefônicas ilegais e oficiais de segurança ameaçando jogar fora 12 an [...] [...] ei seus trabalhos excessivamente permeados de um pessimismo tecnofóbico. Mas em tempos de escutas telefônicas ilegais e oficiais de segurança ameaçando jogar fora 12 an [...]

]]> By: Human Nature and Technology » William Gibson on NSA wiretapping http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-13224 Human Nature and Technology » William Gibson on NSA wiretapping Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:53:38 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-13224 [...] taken the position that it’s very, very illegal and I hope something is done about it. Interview from Open Source Complete Audio (Gibson comes in around minute 35) Will [...] [...] taken the position that it’s very, very illegal and I hope something is done about it. Interview from Open Source Complete Audio (Gibson comes in around minute 35) Will [...]

]]> By: nodeland » Blog Archive » Radio Open Source » The NSA’s New New Phone Database http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-12303 nodeland » Blog Archive » Radio Open Source » The NSA’s New New Phone Database Thu, 15 Jun 2006 05:59:27 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-12303 [...] k into it, but it’s impersonal enough, so why would they be interested.” Link: The NSA’s New New Phone Database This entry was posted [...] [...] k into it, but it’s impersonal enough, so why would they be interested.” Link: The NSA’s New New Phone Database This entry was posted [...]

]]> By: Betabloger » Er hat so recht. http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11273 Betabloger » Er hat so recht. Wed, 17 May 2006 06:31:07 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11273 [...] Posted on Wednesday 17 May 2006 William Gibson sagte neulich in einem Interview (via telepolis, dass das Problem an der NSA Affaire nicht sei, [...] [...] Posted on
Wednesday 17 May 2006

William Gibson sagte neulich in einem Interview (via telepolis, dass das Problem an der NSA Affaire nicht sei, [...]

]]> By: plaintext http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11231 plaintext Mon, 15 May 2006 23:08:59 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11231 OK mrkwst, that the comms cos are required to provide wiretapping capability does not give the government the right to use them without a warrant. OK mrkwst, that the comms cos are required to provide wiretapping capability does not give the government the right to use them without a warrant.

]]> By: ed carwithen http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11228 ed carwithen Mon, 15 May 2006 22:27:16 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11228 It seems to me that the primary problem is one of trust. Do you trust the government to act in your best interests with this information. Do you trust a leader who refused to divulge information about his own national service during the presidetial election, and who managed to have crushed those who attempted to air it out; whose presidency is marred by false information about WMDs, who appears to be surrounded by those who take personal advantage of their position for wealth and power; and on and on? If you trust this leader then you have no problem with the gathering of private information. If you do not, or if you are concerned about future leaders being the recipients of private information, then you do not want them to have this power. Who do you trust? It seems to me that the primary problem is one of trust. Do you trust the government to act in your best interests with this information. Do you trust a leader who refused to divulge information about his own national service during the presidetial election, and who managed to have crushed those who attempted to air it out; whose presidency is marred by false information about WMDs, who appears to be surrounded by those who take personal advantage of their position for wealth and power; and on and on? If you trust this leader then you have no problem with the gathering of private information. If you do not, or if you are concerned about future leaders being the recipients of private information, then you do not want them to have this power. Who do you trust?

]]> By: mrkwst http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11218 mrkwst Mon, 15 May 2006 12:51:44 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11218 President Clinton signed into law the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994. After it was passed in both the House and Senate by a <b>voice vote</b>. The law was enacted "to make clear a telecommunications carrier's duty to cooperate in the interception of communications for law enforcement purposes, and for other purposes." The act made clear that a court order isn't the only lawful way of obtaining call information, saying, "A telecommunications carrier shall ensure that any interception of communications or access to call-identifying information effected within its switching premises can be activated only in accordance with a court order or other lawful authorization." President Clinton signed into law the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994. After it was passed in both the House and Senate by a voice vote. The law was enacted “to make clear a telecommunications carrier’s duty to cooperate in the interception of communications for law enforcement purposes, and for other purposes.” The act made clear that a court order isn’t the only lawful way of obtaining call information, saying, “A telecommunications carrier shall ensure that any interception of communications or access to call-identifying information effected within its switching premises can be activated only in accordance with a court order or other lawful authorization.”

]]> By: Jon http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11214 Jon Mon, 15 May 2006 03:36:56 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11214 Fascinating show. I came to the program prepared to indulge my sense of outrage over the latest assault on our freedoms by the Bush administration. This was in fact duly accomplished. But I also went away from the program with something I had not anticipated: the beginning realization that the phenomenon we learned of may represent a larger turning point in human history than simply the politics of the day. The idea that a record of our interactions may now be being created that will archive at least some aspects of all of our lives in considerable detail is simultaneously chilling and absolutely amazing. In a funny way it reminds me of how so many other major changes in civilization, be they the invention of sharp steel, atomic energy, etc. can be used for good or for evil. That such a huge database can now even be created ranks as a major change in our civilization. So far, though, its propensity to be used in dangerous ways dominates at least my own ability to conceptualize it. Will future generations view this differently? Fascinating show. I came to the program prepared to indulge my sense of outrage over the latest assault on our freedoms by the Bush administration. This was in fact duly accomplished. But I also went away from the program with something I had not anticipated: the beginning realization that the phenomenon we learned of may represent a larger turning point in human history than simply the politics of the day. The idea that a record of our interactions may now be being created that will archive at least some aspects of all of our lives in considerable detail is simultaneously chilling and absolutely amazing. In a funny way it reminds me of how so many other major changes in civilization, be they the invention of sharp steel, atomic energy, etc. can be used for good or for evil. That such a huge database can now even be created ranks as a major change in our civilization. So far, though, its propensity to be used in dangerous ways dominates at least my own ability to conceptualize it. Will future generations view this differently?

]]> By: eripsa » Blog Archive » Dirt-ball street culture http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11208 eripsa » Blog Archive » Dirt-ball street culture Sun, 14 May 2006 22:37:06 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11208 [...] am Gibson by PRI about the NSA wiretapping scandal. You can listen to the entire interview here. I can’t explain it to you, but it has a powerful deja vu. When I got [...] [...] am Gibson by PRI about the NSA wiretapping scandal. You can listen to the entire interview here. I can’t explain it to you, but it has a powerful deja vu. When I got [...]

]]> By: sidewalker http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11182 sidewalker Sat, 13 May 2006 13:41:04 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11182 Mary: The next show in the series has to be on Watching the Watchers. Yes, the question of apathy is important, and this would take us into education, consumerism, etc. But apathy is not new. What is more important is what those trying to protect the rights of the people and the democracy are doing, even if they are in the minority. Here is a good article for starters. http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i28/28a01801.htm Mary: The next show in the series has to be on Watching the Watchers. Yes, the question of apathy is important, and this would take us into education, consumerism, etc. But apathy is not new. What is more important is what those trying to protect the rights of the people and the democracy are doing, even if they are in the minority. Here is a good article for starters.

http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i28/28a01801.htm

]]> By: plaintext http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11172 plaintext Fri, 12 May 2006 22:37:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11172 mrkwst: "voice vote"? please be more specific - how about a link to the <a href="http://thomas.loc.gov/" rel="nofollow">congressional record?</a> joemo: "The NSA has not broken the law here" how about FISA? Or are we to take AG Gonzalez testimony (not under oath, BTW) as constitutional authority? mary: go for it - you got it girl - how can I help? mrkwst: “voice vote”? please be more specific – how about a link to the congressional record?

joemo: “The NSA has not broken the law here” how about FISA? Or are we to take AG Gonzalez testimony (not under oath, BTW) as constitutional authority?

mary: go for it – you got it girl – how can I help?

]]> By: joemo http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11170 joemo Fri, 12 May 2006 21:34:14 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11170 As other people have rightly mentioned. The NSA has not broken the law here. Furthermore, most sane people want the government doing this type of data analysis, especially these days. Polls are already starting to show how Americans support these types of pro-active anti-terrorist measures - be prepared to see Democratic politicians back down on this issue in the coming days too. Watch for it! Islamofascism poses the largest threat to civilization as we know it, and I, like most Americans, am glad our government "gets it". Furthermore, the NSA has a long history... why are people over-reacting about it now, especially when you consider the *real* threats modern civilization faces today? As other people have rightly mentioned. The NSA has not broken the law here. Furthermore, most sane people want the government doing this type of data analysis, especially these days. Polls are already starting to show how Americans support these types of pro-active anti-terrorist measures – be prepared to see Democratic politicians back down on this issue in the coming days too. Watch for it! Islamofascism poses the largest threat to civilization as we know it, and I, like most Americans, am glad our government “gets it”.

Furthermore, the NSA has a long history… why are people over-reacting about it now, especially when you consider the *real* threats modern civilization faces today?

]]> By: Zerolives.org » Blog Archive » links for 2006-05-12 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11168 Zerolives.org » Blog Archive » links for 2006-05-12 Fri, 12 May 2006 20:16:49 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11168 [...] feats titties in a surprising show of force” (tags: silly) Open Source » Blog Archive » The NSA’s New New Phone Database Inte [...] [...] feats titties in a surprising show of force” (tags: silly) Open Source » Blog Archive » The NSA’s New New Phone Database Inte [...]

]]> By: mrkwst http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11165 mrkwst Fri, 12 May 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11165 First, I find it a little amusing that anyone assumes we live in a less than transparent culture/society/shared reality. Not in this day and age. And if you think we the people know everything the Washington Power Elite/entrenched bureaucracy/Military Industrial Complex knows and does, then you are sadly mistaken. So it goes. In 1999 by a voice vote, the US Senate authorized President Clinton's adminstration and the NSA to do the exact kind of data-mining of phone records everyone is so troubled about today. Many feel this vote was just to get an "black-ops" activity on the public record. Something that had been going on for "years". On top of that, in Dec. of last year the New York Times published the exact same information published by the USAToday. Manipulation and spin. A political tempest in a teapot. Look nothing up my sleeve. Disregard the man behind the curtain. Folks. It comes at you from both sides and in all directions. First, I find it a little amusing that anyone assumes we live in a less than transparent culture/society/shared reality. Not in this day and age. And if you think we the people know everything the Washington Power Elite/entrenched bureaucracy/Military Industrial Complex knows and does, then you are sadly mistaken. So it goes.

In 1999 by a voice vote, the US Senate authorized President Clinton’s adminstration and the NSA to do the exact kind of data-mining of phone records everyone is so troubled about today. Many feel this vote was just to get an “black-ops” activity on the public record. Something that had been going on for “years”.

On top of that, in Dec. of last year the New York Times published the exact same information published by the USAToday.

Manipulation and spin. A political tempest in a teapot. Look nothing up my sleeve. Disregard the man behind the curtain. Folks. It comes at you from both sides and in all directions.

]]> By: Mary http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11164 Mary Fri, 12 May 2006 18:40:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11164 Or what about exploring why two thirds of Americans say they don't mind that the NSA is collecting information on their phone calls? <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/12/AR2006051200375.html" rel="nofollow"> link. </a><a></a> Or what about exploring why two thirds of Americans say they don’t mind that the NSA is collecting information on their phone calls?
link.

]]> By: runningdoughboy http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11159 runningdoughboy Fri, 12 May 2006 16:17:15 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11159 I haven't read all of the other comments yet, so someone else may have already made the following observation, but I was somewhat dismayed to hear one of your guests make the suggestion that encrypting one's email traffic is not a good idea because it makes it stand out from the background "white noise", as one of you put it. In point of fact, many of those who are interested in privacy issues would tell you that if more people would encrypt all of their traffic, it would make it prohibitively expensive/time-consuming for NSA or anyone else to effectively deploy these broad-brush techniques of sweeping up massive reams of data in the hope of finding the golden nugget. The amount of computing power necessary to mine through plain-text communications looking for keywords, while certainly extensive, in no way compares to the amount that would be needed in order to overcome any decently strong encryption <i>before</i> the data mining can begin. This is a way that the average citizen can use the emerging technologies in their own favor, rather than having it used against them. I haven’t read all of the other comments yet, so someone else may have already made the following observation, but I was somewhat dismayed to hear one of your guests make the suggestion that encrypting one’s email traffic is not a good idea because it makes it stand out from the background “white noise”, as one of you put it. In point of fact, many of those who are interested in privacy issues would tell you that if more people would encrypt all of their traffic, it would make it prohibitively expensive/time-consuming for NSA or anyone else to effectively deploy these broad-brush techniques of sweeping up massive reams of data in the hope of finding the golden nugget. The amount of computing power necessary to mine through plain-text communications looking for keywords, while certainly extensive, in no way compares to the amount that would be needed in order to overcome any decently strong encryption before the data mining can begin. This is a way that the average citizen can use the emerging technologies in their own favor, rather than having it used against them.

]]> By: plaintext http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11157 plaintext Fri, 12 May 2006 15:57:09 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11157 Mary, I'd say this could easily be another "series." Here are some ideas for you: 1) "Technological Tyrannies." - Was it William Gibson who mentioned that we have become immune to the tyrannical nature of technology in deference to the conveniences it affords us? Where does the trade-off - personal liberties vs. convenience - originate? Is this a psychological or social phenomena? Maybe the <a href="http://www.regent.edu/acad/schcom/rojc/mdic/ellul.html" rel="nofollow">philsophy of Jacques Ellul</a> can shed some light. 2) "Politics of Apathy." Bush and his party are at the nadir of their popularity and yet there is little public pressure for change. Could it be that the neocons are playing a brilliant game of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_Attack" rel="nofollow">Stonewall Attack</a>. As imposing as it is debilitating for all but the most persistent, the opposition is thinned to a manageable extent, the remainder is subsequently undermined along highly customized lines. <a href="http://www.politicalstrategy.org/archives/001067.php" rel="nofollow">An interesting link</a> 3) "Realistic Defense to Terrorism." Part of the success of the neocon revolution is the absence of a realistic defense strategy against terrorism. In a macarbre way, an unrealistic strategy involving much bloodshed and loss of liberty is seen as preferable to no strategy at all - something which worked quite well for many, many years prior to 2001. Is there any "new" thinking going on - NSA wiretapping notwithstanding and hardly new anyway. Mary, I’d say this could easily be another “series.” Here are some ideas for you:

1) “Technological Tyrannies.” – Was it William Gibson who mentioned that we have become immune to the tyrannical nature of technology in deference to the conveniences it affords us? Where does the trade-off – personal liberties vs. convenience – originate? Is this a psychological or social phenomena? Maybe the philsophy of Jacques Ellul can shed some light.

2) “Politics of Apathy.” Bush and his party are at the nadir of their popularity and yet there is little public pressure for change. Could it be that the neocons are playing a brilliant game of Stonewall Attack. As imposing as it is debilitating for all but the most persistent, the opposition is thinned to a manageable extent, the remainder is subsequently undermined along highly customized lines. An interesting link

3) “Realistic Defense to Terrorism.” Part of the success of the neocon revolution is the absence of a realistic defense strategy against terrorism. In a macarbre way, an unrealistic strategy involving much bloodshed and loss of liberty is seen as preferable to no strategy at all – something which worked quite well for many, many years prior to 2001. Is there any “new” thinking going on – NSA wiretapping notwithstanding and hardly new anyway.

]]> By: Mary http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11153 Mary Fri, 12 May 2006 13:26:24 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11153 Is there another hour to do to follow up on this show? What's the new angle and who would you want to hear from? Is there another hour to do to follow up on this show?
What’s the new angle and who would you want to hear from?

]]> By: bobbeacon http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11151 bobbeacon Fri, 12 May 2006 08:44:19 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11151 the great thing about snooping is that there's a built in punishment for the snooper. There are reasons to not look in someone else's dirty laundary or underware drawer. There are things you don't want to know (even for the government) I look forward to a time when the world (including our government) becomes more aware of the sheer number of law-breakers out there, and thus more tolerance is born. an impass... the war on drugs is a good example. Imagine if the DEA could calculate where the drug-dealers where! There'd be too many of them to prosecute! Maybe then, there'd be no choice but to decriminalize! Practically everyone breaks one or another law virtually every day. I think that means that we have too many laws, or that they are way too strict. BTW you guys should require less info to register. This info is going to be part of the government's cache as well soon for all we know. -peace the great thing about snooping is that there’s a built in punishment for the snooper. There are reasons to not look in someone else’s dirty laundary or underware drawer. There are things you don’t want to know (even for the government) I look forward to a time when the world (including our government) becomes more aware of the sheer number of law-breakers out there, and thus more tolerance is born. an impass… the war on drugs is a good example. Imagine if the DEA could calculate where the drug-dealers where! There’d be too many of them to prosecute! Maybe then, there’d be no choice but to decriminalize!

Practically everyone breaks one or another law virtually every day. I think that means that we have too many laws, or that they are way too strict.

BTW
you guys should require less info to register. This info is going to be part of the government’s cache as well soon for all we know.

-peace

]]> By: elphaba http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11148 elphaba Fri, 12 May 2006 06:12:35 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11148 My thought is, why does the government need to know who I talk to on the telephone? I'm not concerned about the government linking me to terrorist organizations, at this time; but to me it is a bit like wanting to know everything that anyone checks out at the library, the only good it could possibly do is help someone on a fishing expedition. Right now the terrorists are considered middle eastern men, but what if the government decides that terrorists are anyone involved in environmentalism, or anyone who politically disagrees with President XYZ. I refuse to participate in the supermarket club cards. I figure they can track product sales through what goes off the shelf. The supermarket doesn't need to know specifically that I bought Green Forest toilet paper. At least I have a choice of refusing to sign up for the card. My thought is, why does the government need to know who I talk to on the telephone? I’m not concerned about the government linking me to terrorist organizations, at this time; but to me it is a bit like wanting to know everything that anyone checks out at the library, the only good it could possibly do is help someone on a fishing expedition. Right now the terrorists are considered middle eastern men, but what if the government decides that terrorists are anyone involved in environmentalism, or anyone who politically disagrees with President XYZ.
I refuse to participate in the supermarket club cards. I figure they can track product sales through what goes off the shelf. The supermarket doesn’t need to know specifically that I bought Green Forest toilet paper. At least I have a choice of refusing to sign up for the card.

]]> By: mulp http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-2/#comment-11141 mulp Fri, 12 May 2006 03:21:39 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11141 Interesting, but I thought someone would comment on this: "As to the legal rational and stuff, my suggestion is to start a semi-secret search for a Rovian cross between whats-his-name the dirty trickster for working in the Whitehouse after the almost certain Democrat is elected. His task would be to find the connections between the people who are calling the 700 club, and who they talk to, the people calling the right to life groups, the baptists, and whatever, to find out who the key influencer is for the largest number of these people and have them fed lies and distortions that will cause the “enemy� to react negatively to the Republicans trying to regain power." I guess the idea of the president data mining all the phone calls to get re-elected is assumed... Interesting, but I thought someone would comment on this:

“As to the legal rational and stuff, my suggestion is to start a semi-secret search for a Rovian cross between whats-his-name the dirty trickster for working in the Whitehouse after the almost certain Democrat is elected. His task would be to find the connections between the people who are calling the 700 club, and who they talk to, the people calling the right to life groups, the baptists, and whatever, to find out who the key influencer is for the largest number of these people and have them fed lies and distortions that will cause the “enemyâ€? to react negatively to the Republicans trying to regain power.”

I guess the idea of the president data mining all the phone calls to get re-elected is assumed…

]]> By: mjc@mgn.com http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-1/#comment-11139 mjc@mgn.com Fri, 12 May 2006 02:48:07 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11139 Information about consumers is no longer stored in paper files (except the clinical information which is on paper at your doctor's office!). If there are laws stopping telecom companies from selling data, why are there not laws stopping insurance companies from sharing claims information? If you have home insurance and make too many claims, your insurance company might drop you. When you try to find a new company, they know about your past claims? If you loose your medical coverage and have a serious illness, what happens when you try to apply for coverage with another insurer? Consumers don't have access to data which can pinpoint the accuracy of what people assume about the insurance industry. Lawmakers should look into protecting consumers from this type of industry practice. You can argue both sides of the data argument. You need to weigh the cost/benefit of divulging this information and giving it to the media. I personally think it doesn't do the country any good. Information about consumers is no longer stored in paper files (except the clinical information which is on paper at your doctor’s office!).

If there are laws stopping telecom companies from selling data, why are there not laws stopping insurance companies from sharing claims information?

If you have home insurance and make too many claims, your insurance company might drop you. When you try to find a new company, they know about your past claims?

If you loose your medical coverage and have a serious illness, what happens when you try to apply for coverage with another insurer?

Consumers don’t have access to data which can pinpoint the accuracy of what people assume about the insurance industry. Lawmakers should look into protecting consumers from this type of industry practice.

You can argue both sides of the data argument. You need to weigh the cost/benefit of divulging this information and giving it to the media.

I personally think it doesn’t do the country any good.

]]> By: EllenP http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-1/#comment-11137 EllenP Fri, 12 May 2006 02:18:03 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11137 When asking about why young people don't seem to care that their conversations or internet use could be read or heard by others, I think you have to factor in a propensity for exhibitionism that is a growing trend in our youth. As a teacher and parent I first became aware of this in the 90ies. The “Girls Gone Wildâ€? sort of thing, is everywhere. There seems to be a new found excitement that comes with being seen. Teens and young adults are being conditioned to "feel" it's not only normal, but something desired. What's missing are the consequences. As parents and teachers we don't help them to "feel" the consequences of their actions. We buffer them, protect them, or try to crush the behavior so that they don't have to encounter natural responses. Perhaps we're also becoming a bit numb to it - "the being seen". What do we feel when we’re seen in compromising situations. Does shame still exist? Maybe all the teaching to say “thank youâ€? and “I’m sorryâ€? – without letting the child feel gratitude or sorrow is a key. I have always put forth that there will be a natural swing in the opposite direction eventually - once the dam of natural consequences bursts. But who will be ready to deal with the flood? When asking about why young people don’t seem to care that their conversations or internet use could be read or heard by others, I think you have to factor in a propensity for exhibitionism that is a growing trend in our youth. As a teacher and parent I first became aware of this in the 90ies. The “Girls Gone Wildâ€? sort of thing, is everywhere. There seems to be a new found excitement that comes with being seen. Teens and young adults are being conditioned to “feel” it’s not only normal, but something desired. What’s missing are the consequences. As parents and teachers we don’t help them to “feel” the consequences of their actions. We buffer them, protect them, or try to crush the behavior so that they don’t have to encounter natural responses. Perhaps we’re also becoming a bit numb to it – “the being seen”. What do we feel when we’re seen in compromising situations. Does shame still exist? Maybe all the teaching to say “thank youâ€? and “I’m sorryâ€? – without letting the child feel gratitude or sorrow is a key. I have always put forth that there will be a natural swing in the opposite direction eventually – once the dam of natural consequences bursts. But who will be ready to deal with the flood?

]]> By: canoeman http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/comment-page-1/#comment-11133 canoeman Fri, 12 May 2006 00:41:08 +0000 http://www.radioopensource.org/the-nsas-new-new-phone-database/#comment-11133 anyone read the new book Overthrow.........by stephen kinzer anyone read the new book Overthrow………by stephen kinzer

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