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	<title>Comments on: Times Select: All the News That&#039;s Fit to Pay For</title>
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	<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/</link>
	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
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		<title>By: manning120</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66033</link>
		<dc:creator>manning120</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 01:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66033</guid>
		<description>I was distracted for several weeks and realized only yesterday that this topic was up. In perusing the comments, itâ€™s interesting that no one seems to put much emphasis on the interactive nature of the NYTâ€™s fora related to the commentary that now has to be paid for. The paper had a problem in that the contributors posted a lot more heat than light, and usually strayed far from the content of the NYTâ€™s articles. It was very difficult to work your way through the flames to find worthwhile contributions. I also had the distinct feeling that my own essays, which clearly involved much more time and effort than 90% of the contributions, had very little impact. I thought this because even my best essays resulted in few, if any, responses, and soon got erased by the managers.



To borrow from the ad makers: PC --  $600; word processor -- $400; Internet service -- $50; having your ideas considered and commented upon by others -- priceless. If the NYT had acted in response to this idea rather than making money, I would be for the change. But for now, Iâ€™m looking elsewhere, such has here, where my ideas actually get responses and are even noticed by Google (check it out).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was distracted for several weeks and realized only yesterday that this topic was up. In perusing the comments, itâ€™s interesting that no one seems to put much emphasis on the interactive nature of the NYTâ€™s fora related to the commentary that now has to be paid for. The paper had a problem in that the contributors posted a lot more heat than light, and usually strayed far from the content of the NYTâ€™s articles. It was very difficult to work your way through the flames to find worthwhile contributions. I also had the distinct feeling that my own essays, which clearly involved much more time and effort than 90% of the contributions, had very little impact. I thought this because even my best essays resulted in few, if any, responses, and soon got erased by the managers.</p>
<p>To borrow from the ad makers: PC &#8212;  $600; word processor &#8212; $400; Internet service &#8212; $50; having your ideas considered and commented upon by others &#8212; priceless. If the NYT had acted in response to this idea rather than making money, I would be for the change. But for now, Iâ€™m looking elsewhere, such has here, where my ideas actually get responses and are even noticed by Google (check it out).</p>
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		<title>By: sullicj</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66032</link>
		<dc:creator>sullicj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66032</guid>
		<description>I initially &quot;went without&quot; reading the columnists when the Times first placed them behind the paywall.  Then I realized that all NY Times articles, including the op-ed columns, are available &quot;day one&quot; through database links on the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners web site.  Incidentally, I also noted links to Boston Herald and Wall Street Journal articles, both of which place some or all of their content behind the Wall.



So if the columns can still be accessed for free, albeit less conveniently, it begs the question of exactly what &quot;value&quot; the Times is offering that would justify the loss of audience, and therefore influence, being inflicted on its columnists.



Are Massachusetts libraries the exception to the rule in providing remote access to these databases, or are these institutions simply betting that readers will pay the subscription fees believing they have no other choice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I initially &#8220;went without&#8221; reading the columnists when the Times first placed them behind the paywall.  Then I realized that all NY Times articles, including the op-ed columns, are available &#8220;day one&#8221; through database links on the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners web site.  Incidentally, I also noted links to Boston Herald and Wall Street Journal articles, both of which place some or all of their content behind the Wall.</p>
<p>So if the columns can still be accessed for free, albeit less conveniently, it begs the question of exactly what &#8220;value&#8221; the Times is offering that would justify the loss of audience, and therefore influence, being inflicted on its columnists.</p>
<p>Are Massachusetts libraries the exception to the rule in providing remote access to these databases, or are these institutions simply betting that readers will pay the subscription fees believing they have no other choice?</p>
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		<title>By: JonGarfunkel</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66031</link>
		<dc:creator>JonGarfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66031</guid>
		<description>Jay&#039;s dig at Kansas-- or rather, the dig at an elite New York person&#039;s dig at Kansas-- perked my attention when I was listening to this show 17 days ago (

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-2088&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see comment&lt;/a&gt;. I finally took the time to transcribe it:



&quot;The Washington Post, for whatever reason-- and it would take some investigation to find out exactly why-- has been more flexible, more open, more willing to junk some of the old religion, more willing to experiment, and the indicator of this is when they hired this guy Adrian from the Lawrence, Kansas World newspaper which is a tiny, tiny outfit in the middle of Kansas because he was incredibly smart about the web. And the New York Times would basically never do that, because they think of themselves as part of the cultural center, and the cultural elite and Kansas doesn&#039;t have anything to teach New York, in their point of view.&quot;



I finally had time to learn more about &quot;this guy Adrian&quot;-- he is Chicagoan &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.holovaty.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adrian Holovaty&lt;/a&gt;, who upon close inspection is not just &quot;incredibly smart about the web.&quot; He&#039;s been winning awards for interactive journalism for the last half-decade, since he was at the University of Missouri. He just won an award from the J-Lab for his innovative creation of the ChicagoCrime.org site, which he has done in his spare time.



I would assume that any leading newspaper would look for the best candidates anywhere in the world. &lt;a href=&quot;http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=10057&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rich Meislin&lt;/a&gt; is now slouch either. Granted, the NYT picked him up thirty years ago from Harvard, but that&#039;s not his fault he wasn&#039;t plucked like a sunflower from the blessed heartland.



The Post, to their credit, created a job opening, and filled it with the most qualified person available for the job. I thought it generally an accepted truth that people in smaller media markets work pretty damned hard to move up, and have greater latitude in experimentation.



I have been looking through the archives of Romanesko&#039;s Memo&#039;s, to learn about the origination of editors of the Times. It&#039;s a long slog; maybe it would be simple if the Times provided this themselves. One thing jumped out at me, though-- new ombudsmen Barney Calame, whose forty-year career at the WSJ was the key experience the Times was looking for, also has on resume that he begun his journalism career, like Holovaty, at the University of Missouri.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay&#8217;s dig at Kansas&#8211; or rather, the dig at an elite New York person&#8217;s dig at Kansas&#8211; perked my attention when I was listening to this show 17 days ago (</p>
<p><a  href="http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-2088" rel="nofollow">see comment</a>. I finally took the time to transcribe it:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Washington Post, for whatever reason&#8211; and it would take some investigation to find out exactly why&#8211; has been more flexible, more open, more willing to junk some of the old religion, more willing to experiment, and the indicator of this is when they hired this guy Adrian from the Lawrence, Kansas World newspaper which is a tiny, tiny outfit in the middle of Kansas because he was incredibly smart about the web. And the New York Times would basically never do that, because they think of themselves as part of the cultural center, and the cultural elite and Kansas doesn&#8217;t have anything to teach New York, in their point of view.&#8221;</p>
<p>I finally had time to learn more about &#8220;this guy Adrian&#8221;&#8211; he is Chicagoan <a  href="http://www.holovaty.com/" rel="nofollow">Adrian Holovaty</a>, who upon close inspection is not just &#8220;incredibly smart about the web.&#8221; He&#8217;s been winning awards for interactive journalism for the last half-decade, since he was at the University of Missouri. He just won an award from the J-Lab for his innovative creation of the ChicagoCrime.org site, which he has done in his spare time.</p>
<p>I would assume that any leading newspaper would look for the best candidates anywhere in the world. <a  href="http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=10057" rel="nofollow">Rich Meislin</a> is now slouch either. Granted, the NYT picked him up thirty years ago from Harvard, but that&#8217;s not his fault he wasn&#8217;t plucked like a sunflower from the blessed heartland.</p>
<p>The Post, to their credit, created a job opening, and filled it with the most qualified person available for the job. I thought it generally an accepted truth that people in smaller media markets work pretty damned hard to move up, and have greater latitude in experimentation.</p>
<p>I have been looking through the archives of Romanesko&#8217;s Memo&#8217;s, to learn about the origination of editors of the Times. It&#8217;s a long slog; maybe it would be simple if the Times provided this themselves. One thing jumped out at me, though&#8211; new ombudsmen Barney Calame, whose forty-year career at the WSJ was the key experience the Times was looking for, also has on resume that he begun his journalism career, like Holovaty, at the University of Missouri.</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66030</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66030</guid>
		<description>I just noticed that the &quot;most emailed articles&quot; box today does not contain one columnist whereas before the firewall there was always at least one if not more columnists amongst them. Does this mean that their readership has been diminished by this move?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed that the &#8220;most emailed articles&#8221; box today does not contain one columnist whereas before the firewall there was always at least one if not more columnists amongst them. Does this mean that their readership has been diminished by this move?</p>
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		<title>By: VT mom</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66029</link>
		<dc:creator>VT mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66029</guid>
		<description>I was intrigued by the assertion from the Times&#039; representative that conversions from the free preview to the pay service was 95%.  I wonder whether that&#039;s related to my experience with the preview.  I tried it out, realized I couldn&#039;t bear to have The Powers That Be think I was actually prepared to pay money to read David Brooks (!), and tried to cancel.  And tried again.  And again.  For two days, the link was broken.  After repeated emails back and forth, they finally canceled me manually, apparently by wiping out the original order as though I had never signed up in the first place.  I assume the result of this is an artificial boosting to the apparent conversion rate, all very innocent, I&#039;m sure.  Another result is that  those same Powers were deprived of my pithy thoughts on the service.  I find it very hard to believe I was the only one who had this problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was intrigued by the assertion from the Times&#8217; representative that conversions from the free preview to the pay service was 95%.  I wonder whether that&#8217;s related to my experience with the preview.  I tried it out, realized I couldn&#8217;t bear to have The Powers That Be think I was actually prepared to pay money to read David Brooks (!), and tried to cancel.  And tried again.  And again.  For two days, the link was broken.  After repeated emails back and forth, they finally canceled me manually, apparently by wiping out the original order as though I had never signed up in the first place.  I assume the result of this is an artificial boosting to the apparent conversion rate, all very innocent, I&#8217;m sure.  Another result is that  those same Powers were deprived of my pithy thoughts on the service.  I find it very hard to believe I was the only one who had this problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66028</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66028</guid>
		<description>This was a very good show...good guests. I wonder if the anti-NYT response is related to the old anti-New York and New Yorkers thing. Some people just hate New York and New Yorkers. We can analyze that in the race and class series. Having come from New York to Boston I got a lot of that when I arrived. I am tied to the New York Times since we had to read it in school for current events. And for examples of good writing it was the New Yorker Magazine. So these two publications are imprinted on me.





The paper has over the years deserved it&#039;s good reputation as far as I am concerned. Lately I have been disappointed in Judith Miller and the paper&#039;s defense of her refusal to reveal information in the Plame case. I still read Friedman, though he is not quite as insightful or right. I love Frank Rich and Bob Herbert and Paul Krugman, and M. Dowd occasionally. Mainly though it&#039;s the excellent reporting from Dexter Filkins, John Burns, Steven Erlanger, James Bennet to name a few. AlsoI love Edward Rothstein, Julie Salamon and  R.W. Apple to name just a few more.  I rely on the arts pages as well as the food and home sections, book reviews, excellent contributor articles to the editorial pages, the letters, and occasionally the magazine articles. In other words I gobble up a lot of it.



So don&#039;t include me in the &quot;we will live without you somehow&quot; crowd. One does wonder why the move inspires such animosity that people would cut themselves off from 97% of the paper that is still free and still excellent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a very good show&#8230;good guests. I wonder if the anti-NYT response is related to the old anti-New York and New Yorkers thing. Some people just hate New York and New Yorkers. We can analyze that in the race and class series. Having come from New York to Boston I got a lot of that when I arrived. I am tied to the New York Times since we had to read it in school for current events. And for examples of good writing it was the New Yorker Magazine. So these two publications are imprinted on me.</p>
<p>The paper has over the years deserved it&#8217;s good reputation as far as I am concerned. Lately I have been disappointed in Judith Miller and the paper&#8217;s defense of her refusal to reveal information in the Plame case. I still read Friedman, though he is not quite as insightful or right. I love Frank Rich and Bob Herbert and Paul Krugman, and M. Dowd occasionally. Mainly though it&#8217;s the excellent reporting from Dexter Filkins, John Burns, Steven Erlanger, James Bennet to name a few. AlsoI love Edward Rothstein, Julie Salamon and  R.W. Apple to name just a few more.  I rely on the arts pages as well as the food and home sections, book reviews, excellent contributor articles to the editorial pages, the letters, and occasionally the magazine articles. In other words I gobble up a lot of it.</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t include me in the &#8220;we will live without you somehow&#8221; crowd. One does wonder why the move inspires such animosity that people would cut themselves off from 97% of the paper that is still free and still excellent.</p>
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		<title>By: willnotpaynyt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66027</link>
		<dc:creator>willnotpaynyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66027</guid>
		<description>Well- to the NYT &#039; exclusive&#039; columnists - I only have to say one thing &quot; Hasta la Vista baby!&quot; stay behind your firewall - no great loss ! We will live without you somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well- to the NYT &#8216; exclusive&#8217; columnists &#8211; I only have to say one thing &#8221; Hasta la Vista baby!&#8221; stay behind your firewall &#8211; no great loss ! We will live without you somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: willnotpaynyt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66026</link>
		<dc:creator>willnotpaynyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 05:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66026</guid>
		<description>Garfunkel - are you a &#039;plant&#039; from the NYT? All your posts seem to have one point - ra ra about the NYT ! If you are a &#039;plant&#039; - you should do a better job of being more subtle about the sales pitch - if you are not - you are pathetic! I guess the fact that you quote Lessig from Harvard tells us what you are all about - an admirer of authority and received wisdom - therefore a misfit for the web - maybe you really need to start reading the Saturday Evening Post  -paper edition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garfunkel &#8211; are you a &#8216;plant&#8217; from the NYT? All your posts seem to have one point &#8211; ra ra about the NYT ! If you are a &#8216;plant&#8217; &#8211; you should do a better job of being more subtle about the sales pitch &#8211; if you are not &#8211; you are pathetic! I guess the fact that you quote Lessig from Harvard tells us what you are all about &#8211; an admirer of authority and received wisdom &#8211; therefore a misfit for the web &#8211; maybe you really need to start reading the Saturday Evening Post  -paper edition.</p>
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		<title>By: JonGarfunkel</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66025</link>
		<dc:creator>JonGarfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66025</guid>
		<description>&quot;You are only as good as your last post&quot; -- the blogosphere is so rapid fire, there&#039;s no time for punctuation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You are only as good as your last post&#8221; &#8212; the blogosphere is so rapid fire, there&#8217;s no time for punctuation!</p>
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		<title>By: willnotpaynyt</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/times-select-all-the-news-thats-fit-to-pay-for/#comment-66024</link>
		<dc:creator>willnotpaynyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2005 02:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/?p=272#comment-66024</guid>
		<description>The tragedy is that the NYT is swimming against the tide in terms of the basic philosophy of the WWW - it is very simple really - you have to show up for the game and start batting without asking for any money down - the basic info about the worlf is now available in a flash - analysis is everywhere too  - the NYT will NOT and DOES not have an inside track advantage - it&#039;s called a level playing field -  to expect to be paid for the quality of analysis reveals how clueless the NYT really is - what creates the quality is open access - the open buzz on the net changes the product itself- and if a product becomes veiled behind a wall- guess what? you are only reaching people in the world who can or will cough up 50 bucks - who thinks that the quality of people you reach has a relationship to an ability to pay! so there you have it - the NYT will only reach an increasingly bewildered and impotent elite totterring out of the  club world of paid content and peering incomprehensively at the rapid fire diverse blogosphere where you are only as good as your last post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tragedy is that the NYT is swimming against the tide in terms of the basic philosophy of the WWW &#8211; it is very simple really &#8211; you have to show up for the game and start batting without asking for any money down &#8211; the basic info about the worlf is now available in a flash &#8211; analysis is everywhere too  &#8211; the NYT will NOT and DOES not have an inside track advantage &#8211; it&#8217;s called a level playing field &#8211;  to expect to be paid for the quality of analysis reveals how clueless the NYT really is &#8211; what creates the quality is open access &#8211; the open buzz on the net changes the product itself- and if a product becomes veiled behind a wall- guess what? you are only reaching people in the world who can or will cough up 50 bucks &#8211; who thinks that the quality of people you reach has a relationship to an ability to pay! so there you have it &#8211; the NYT will only reach an increasingly bewildered and impotent elite totterring out of the  club world of paid content and peering incomprehensively at the rapid fire diverse blogosphere where you are only as good as your last post</p>
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