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	<title>Comments on: War with Iran?</title>
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	<description>Christopher Lydon in conversation on arts, ideas and politics</description>
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		<title>By: jazzman</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73131</link>
		<dc:creator>jazzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73131</guid>
		<description>Concerning a war with Iran: &lt;b&gt;NO â€“ A THOUSAND TIMES NO&lt;/b&gt; The current philosophy (oxymoron) in this administration (end of days cult) seems to echo this Randy Newman ditty. Change the lyrics to suit Iran and it could be Mahmoud Ahmadinejadâ€™s philosophy. We would do well to remember that real world logic systems are not formal Quinian symbolic constructs. They are only consistent within each logical belief system. The logic of Islam doesnâ€™t comport with Judeo-Christian logic or what the U.S.A.â€™s general population would think of as logic (Iâ€™m not sure that GWâ€™s logic comports with any other system.) Diplomacy with an acute sensitivity and understanding of the disparate logic systems to achieve common purpose is what is needed to resolve this potentially &lt;i&gt;explosive&lt;/i&gt; situation. The neo-con pipe dream of the U.S. Empire must be countered aggressively if our children are to inherit a world worth inheriting.



&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Political Science&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; by Randy Newman



No one likes us-I don&#039;t know why

We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try

But all around, even our old friends put us down

Let&#039;s drop the big one and see what happens



We give them money-but are they grateful?

No, they&#039;re spiteful and they&#039;re hateful

They don&#039;t respect us-so let&#039;s surprise them

We&#039;ll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia&#039;s crowded and Europe&#039;s too old



Africa is far too hot

And Canada&#039;s too cold

And South America stole our name

Let&#039;s drop the big one

There&#039;ll be no one left to blame us



We&#039;ll save Australia

Don&#039;t wanna hurt no kangaroo

We&#039;ll build an All American amusement park there

They got surfin&#039;, too



Boom goes London and boom Paree

More room for you and more room for me

And every city the whole world round

Will just be another American town

Oh, how peaceful it will be

We&#039;ll set everybody free

You&#039;ll wear a Japanese kimono

And there&#039;ll be Italian shoes for me



They all hate us anyhow

So let&#039;s drop the big one now

Let&#039;s drop the big one now.



&lt;b&gt;Letâ€™s NOT&lt;/b&gt; Peace to ALL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning a war with Iran: <b>NO â€“ A THOUSAND TIMES NO</b> The current philosophy (oxymoron) in this administration (end of days cult) seems to echo this Randy Newman ditty. Change the lyrics to suit Iran and it could be Mahmoud Ahmadinejadâ€™s philosophy. We would do well to remember that real world logic systems are not formal Quinian symbolic constructs. They are only consistent within each logical belief system. The logic of Islam doesnâ€™t comport with Judeo-Christian logic or what the U.S.A.â€™s general population would think of as logic (Iâ€™m not sure that GWâ€™s logic comports with any other system.) Diplomacy with an acute sensitivity and understanding of the disparate logic systems to achieve common purpose is what is needed to resolve this potentially <i>explosive</i> situation. The neo-con pipe dream of the U.S. Empire must be countered aggressively if our children are to inherit a world worth inheriting.</p>
<p><b><i>Political Science</i></b> by Randy Newman</p>
<p>No one likes us-I don&#8217;t know why</p>
<p>We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try</p>
<p>But all around, even our old friends put us down</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s drop the big one and see what happens</p>
<p>We give them money-but are they grateful?</p>
<p>No, they&#8217;re spiteful and they&#8217;re hateful</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t respect us-so let&#8217;s surprise them</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll drop the big one and pulverize them</p>
<p>Asia&#8217;s crowded and Europe&#8217;s too old</p>
<p>Africa is far too hot</p>
<p>And Canada&#8217;s too cold</p>
<p>And South America stole our name</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s drop the big one</p>
<p>There&#8217;ll be no one left to blame us</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll save Australia</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t wanna hurt no kangaroo</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll build an All American amusement park there</p>
<p>They got surfin&#8217;, too</p>
<p>Boom goes London and boom Paree</p>
<p>More room for you and more room for me</p>
<p>And every city the whole world round</p>
<p>Will just be another American town</p>
<p>Oh, how peaceful it will be</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll set everybody free</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll wear a Japanese kimono</p>
<p>And there&#8217;ll be Italian shoes for me</p>
<p>They all hate us anyhow</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s drop the big one now</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s drop the big one now.</p>
<p><b>Letâ€™s NOT</b> Peace to ALL</p>
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		<title>By: nother</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73130</link>
		<dc:creator>nother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73130</guid>
		<description>Whoops! - &quot;rhetoric&quot;, &quot;exchanged&quot;, &quot;concerning&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops! &#8211; &#8220;rhetoric&#8221;, &#8220;exchanged&#8221;, &#8220;concerning&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: nother</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73129</link>
		<dc:creator>nother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73129</guid>
		<description>We saw worse rethoric echanged with the old Soviet Union.  Ronald Reagan was secure enough in himself as a man and a leader to personally engage.  Can you imagine if Bush Jr. said he would like to have a meeting (summit) with Ahmadinejad.  At least give these guys the dignity of discourse.  If we treat them with dignity, they might act with dignity.



As far a Chris&#039;s post game concering &quot;history actors.&quot; I bring back the following quote:



â€œWhoever today speaks of human existence in terms of power, efficiency, and â€˜â€™historical tasks&#039;â€™ is an actual or potential assassin.â€?

-Albert Camus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We saw worse rethoric echanged with the old Soviet Union.  Ronald Reagan was secure enough in himself as a man and a leader to personally engage.  Can you imagine if Bush Jr. said he would like to have a meeting (summit) with Ahmadinejad.  At least give these guys the dignity of discourse.  If we treat them with dignity, they might act with dignity.</p>
<p>As far a Chris&#8217;s post game concering &#8220;history actors.&#8221; I bring back the following quote:</p>
<p>â€œWhoever today speaks of human existence in terms of power, efficiency, and â€˜â€™historical tasks&#8217;â€™ is an actual or potential assassin.â€?</p>
<p>-Albert Camus</p>
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		<title>By: cheesechowmain</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73128</link>
		<dc:creator>cheesechowmain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73128</guid>
		<description>Potter @ 5:58: It&#039;s so sane it&#039;ll never happen. The protagonists are having too much pleasure playing mutual antagonists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potter @ 5:58: It&#8217;s so sane it&#8217;ll never happen. The protagonists are having too much pleasure playing mutual antagonists.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73127</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73127</guid>
		<description>Suppose we let the Iranians have their moment of pride and now we try to embrace them and bid them to abide by an  agreement with a verification program. Is that too sane?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose we let the Iranians have their moment of pride and now we try to embrace them and bid them to abide by an  agreement with a verification program. Is that too sane?</p>
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		<title>By: maotalk</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73126</link>
		<dc:creator>maotalk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73126</guid>
		<description>Somebody clarify this, please!!

Copyright 2002 The Jerusalem Post

The Jerusalem Post



August 30, 2002, Friday



LENGTH: 722 words



HEADLINE: Latest incident puts spotlight on illicit arms trade industry



BYLINE: Matthew Gutman



BODY:

While many Israelis&#039; faces registered shock Wednesday night when the news broke that a ship carrying Israeli military parts destined for Iran was seized by German authorities, illicit Israeli military sales to the hard- line Shi&#039;ite state is hardly a new phenomenon.



This latest, and possibly most benign, link in a long chain of Israeli arms sales to Iran began when a Netanya- based company under the name PAD tried to ship a container full of Israeli-made rubber treads for armored personnel carriers to Iran via Germany. The company had received a license from the Defense Ministry to send the shipment to Thailand.



According to defense industry experts, the name of PAD&#039;s chairman, Avihai Weinstein, piqued the Germans&#039; suspicions, causing them to more closely inspect the ship&#039;s docking request and the ostensible transfer of its contents to a Malaysian ship.



Weinstein, 34, along with his brother-in-law, Eli Cohen, had been involved with a previous arms smuggling incident two years ago when they allegedly tried to sell Iran surplus Canadian military equipment through European intermediaries.



Prior arms trafficking incidents involving Eli Cohen compelled the US State Department&#039;s Bureau of Political- Military Affairs in September 1993 to ban business with any subsidiaries, associated companies, or successor companies he was affiliated with.



While Israel continued to illicitly sell parts for Phantom jets to Iran even after Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in 1979, by far the most severe cases of Israeli arms trafficking involvement with Iran came under the aegis of US National Security Council staffer Oliver North, and other American officials in the mid 1980s. This became known as the Iran-Contra affair, or &quot;Irangate.&quot;



Throughout 1985 and 1986 Israel arms dealers connected to the Israeli government and with ties to American intelligence agencies including the NSC&#039;s North, allegedly supplied Iran with more than 1,000 LAW anti-tank missiles and parts to Hawk anti-aircraft missiles in deals worth over $ 100 million.



The proceeds of this trade were then funneled into the coffers of the Contra rebels in Nicaragua. Meantime, the US and Israel tried to leverage these sales by asking Iran to pressure Shi&#039;ite groups in Lebanon to release Western hostages.



According to reports, much of the arms trading was allegedly conducted through a private Israeli company called International Desalination Equipment, Ltd., then run by Ya&#039;acov Nimrodi, who from the 1950s until the Shah of Iran was overthrown in 1979 was Israel&#039;s military attache in Tehran. Nimrodi was often aided and counseled by then- prime minister Shimon Peres&#039;s adviser on terrorism, Amiram Nir - who also had close connections with North and later died in a mysterious plane crash in Mexico.



While Israeli arms merchants&#039; dealings with Iran appear treasonous and even suicidal given Iran&#039;s efforts to attain nuclear weapons, such clandestine contacts have served Israel&#039;s interest for years, according to Dr. Gerald Steinberg of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies.



&quot;There is overriding Israeli political interest to maintain informal ties with Iran, in anticipation of a formal change in Iran&#039;s perception of Israel,&quot; he said.



Steinberg, an expert on the arms trade industry, said arms smuggling has long existed on the margins of Israel&#039;s legal system. Such illicit trade, often involving large sums of money, serves the interest of arms producers who have high overhead operating costs, he said.



&quot;The large sums of money often involved in such trade and a significant amount of jobs on the line creates an incentive to sell.&quot; Steinberg said. This need, he added, is also what enables Defense Ministry officials to allot arms- selling licenses to dealers, like Weinstein, with known ties to staunch enemies like Iran.



Given the lack of strategic relevance of rubber treads used for APCs, and the pace of recent events in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, many Israeli experts reportedly believe the PAD affair will blow over quickly, according to Steinberg.



He said the most severe political fallout will likely occur in Iran, where President Muhammad Khatami&#039;s pro- reform administration will have to weather the accusations of Iran collaborating with the &quot;little Satan,&quot; Israel.



LOAD-DATE: September 1, 2002</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody clarify this, please!!</p>
<p>Copyright 2002 The Jerusalem Post</p>
<p>The Jerusalem Post</p>
<p>August 30, 2002, Friday</p>
<p>LENGTH: 722 words</p>
<p>HEADLINE: Latest incident puts spotlight on illicit arms trade industry</p>
<p>BYLINE: Matthew Gutman</p>
<p>BODY:</p>
<p>While many Israelis&#8217; faces registered shock Wednesday night when the news broke that a ship carrying Israeli military parts destined for Iran was seized by German authorities, illicit Israeli military sales to the hard- line Shi&#8217;ite state is hardly a new phenomenon.</p>
<p>This latest, and possibly most benign, link in a long chain of Israeli arms sales to Iran began when a Netanya- based company under the name PAD tried to ship a container full of Israeli-made rubber treads for armored personnel carriers to Iran via Germany. The company had received a license from the Defense Ministry to send the shipment to Thailand.</p>
<p>According to defense industry experts, the name of PAD&#8217;s chairman, Avihai Weinstein, piqued the Germans&#8217; suspicions, causing them to more closely inspect the ship&#8217;s docking request and the ostensible transfer of its contents to a Malaysian ship.</p>
<p>Weinstein, 34, along with his brother-in-law, Eli Cohen, had been involved with a previous arms smuggling incident two years ago when they allegedly tried to sell Iran surplus Canadian military equipment through European intermediaries.</p>
<p>Prior arms trafficking incidents involving Eli Cohen compelled the US State Department&#8217;s Bureau of Political- Military Affairs in September 1993 to ban business with any subsidiaries, associated companies, or successor companies he was affiliated with.</p>
<p>While Israel continued to illicitly sell parts for Phantom jets to Iran even after Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in 1979, by far the most severe cases of Israeli arms trafficking involvement with Iran came under the aegis of US National Security Council staffer Oliver North, and other American officials in the mid 1980s. This became known as the Iran-Contra affair, or &#8220;Irangate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Throughout 1985 and 1986 Israel arms dealers connected to the Israeli government and with ties to American intelligence agencies including the NSC&#8217;s North, allegedly supplied Iran with more than 1,000 LAW anti-tank missiles and parts to Hawk anti-aircraft missiles in deals worth over $ 100 million.</p>
<p>The proceeds of this trade were then funneled into the coffers of the Contra rebels in Nicaragua. Meantime, the US and Israel tried to leverage these sales by asking Iran to pressure Shi&#8217;ite groups in Lebanon to release Western hostages.</p>
<p>According to reports, much of the arms trading was allegedly conducted through a private Israeli company called International Desalination Equipment, Ltd., then run by Ya&#8217;acov Nimrodi, who from the 1950s until the Shah of Iran was overthrown in 1979 was Israel&#8217;s military attache in Tehran. Nimrodi was often aided and counseled by then- prime minister Shimon Peres&#8217;s adviser on terrorism, Amiram Nir &#8211; who also had close connections with North and later died in a mysterious plane crash in Mexico.</p>
<p>While Israeli arms merchants&#8217; dealings with Iran appear treasonous and even suicidal given Iran&#8217;s efforts to attain nuclear weapons, such clandestine contacts have served Israel&#8217;s interest for years, according to Dr. Gerald Steinberg of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is overriding Israeli political interest to maintain informal ties with Iran, in anticipation of a formal change in Iran&#8217;s perception of Israel,&#8221; he said.</p>
<p>Steinberg, an expert on the arms trade industry, said arms smuggling has long existed on the margins of Israel&#8217;s legal system. Such illicit trade, often involving large sums of money, serves the interest of arms producers who have high overhead operating costs, he said.</p>
<p>&#8220;The large sums of money often involved in such trade and a significant amount of jobs on the line creates an incentive to sell.&#8221; Steinberg said. This need, he added, is also what enables Defense Ministry officials to allot arms- selling licenses to dealers, like Weinstein, with known ties to staunch enemies like Iran.</p>
<p>Given the lack of strategic relevance of rubber treads used for APCs, and the pace of recent events in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, many Israeli experts reportedly believe the PAD affair will blow over quickly, according to Steinberg.</p>
<p>He said the most severe political fallout will likely occur in Iran, where President Muhammad Khatami&#8217;s pro- reform administration will have to weather the accusations of Iran collaborating with the &#8220;little Satan,&#8221; Israel.</p>
<p>LOAD-DATE: September 1, 2002</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73125</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73125</guid>
		<description>Nikos, 9:24 thanks - I retract some of that, IAEA said nothing happening on Iraq, and voiced opposition to the military action there, they are much less certain about Iran.

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/index.shtml

and here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4617398.stm

My cynicism has me assume anything coming out of the administration as false first, especially claims of foreign threats, and military facilities... my knee jerk there. your fellow plebe -b</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikos, 9:24 thanks &#8211; I retract some of that, IAEA said nothing happening on Iraq, and voiced opposition to the military action there, they are much less certain about Iran.</p>
<p><a  href="http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/index.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/index.shtml</a></p>
<p>and here <a  href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4617398.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4617398.stm</a></p>
<p>My cynicism has me assume anything coming out of the administration as false first, especially claims of foreign threats, and military facilities&#8230; my knee jerk there. your fellow plebe -b</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73124</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73124</guid>
		<description>&quot;There&#039;s an old saying in Tennessee â€” I know it&#039;s in Texas, probably in Tennessee â€” that says, fool me once, shame on â€” shame on you. Fool me â€” you can&#039;t get fooled again.&quot; â€”President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s an old saying in Tennessee â€” I know it&#8217;s in Texas, probably in Tennessee â€” that says, fool me once, shame on â€” shame on you. Fool me â€” you can&#8217;t get fooled again.&#8221; â€”President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73123</link>
		<dc:creator>Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73123</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Darcy23&lt;/b&gt;



 Welcome and thanks for your good post and perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Darcy23</b></p>
<p> Welcome and thanks for your good post and perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: babu</title>
		<link>http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73122</link>
		<dc:creator>babu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.radioopensource.org/war-with-iran/#comment-73122</guid>
		<description>Darcy23: &quot;the Axis of Evil, did not start yesterday; itâ€™s been going on since we attacked Iraq.&quot;



The Axis of Evil has been going on since we exterminated the First People of this land, made believe they were never here and went right on with our xenophobic nation-building.   As a nation, this is how we started.



Has anybody out there seen Martin McDonogh&#039;s play, the Pillowman?  An Irishman who grew up in London during &#039;the troubles&#039;, his voice is the most direct and succinct summary of the gruesome double-speak of modern politics.



Nikos and Seattleites, it&#039;s been on Broadway but right now it&#039;s being staged by Seattle&#039;s ACT Theater.  Excellent political theater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darcy23: &#8220;the Axis of Evil, did not start yesterday; itâ€™s been going on since we attacked Iraq.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Axis of Evil has been going on since we exterminated the First People of this land, made believe they were never here and went right on with our xenophobic nation-building.   As a nation, this is how we started.</p>
<p>Has anybody out there seen Martin McDonogh&#8217;s play, the Pillowman?  An Irishman who grew up in London during &#8216;the troubles&#8217;, his voice is the most direct and succinct summary of the gruesome double-speak of modern politics.</p>
<p>Nikos and Seattleites, it&#8217;s been on Broadway but right now it&#8217;s being staged by Seattle&#8217;s ACT Theater.  Excellent political theater.</p>
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