Sometimes 2+2 does =5

2 dBm + 2 dBm = 5 dBm (Because it does)

I’d suggest Wilson pick-up a M-16 and stand post while his buddies get blown up by a IDE. Then, on the next patrol take out his anger on a couple of Iraqi teenagers “just for the hell of it.” Or engage in nighttime raids on suspected “terrorist” families while fighting his own conscience. Or take in his own hands the order from up-on-high to “kill, on-sight, anyone out after curfew.” Which he may enjoy for a while (taking out his anger). But will surely come back from Iraq without his soul (as are many soldiers experiencing).

With the backdrop of the horrors of this war…I find it interesting that Wilson sites examples of soldiers saying that they are “fighting for freedom” and he has no problem with this ideal. Contexts is important. Soldiers should not be fighting for an abstract freedom abroad. They should be fighting to defend the US Constitution and against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. Which includes the special interest groups that sent them there.

The more I listened to Wilson talk the angrier I got. I’ll sum up his book:

2+2=5 (Because I say so)

War is Peace

Slavery is Freedom

Greed is Good (by Gordon Gekko)

Jazzman :I also am ashamed of the collective behavior of our nation vis-à-vis the rest of the world. Whether or not we agree with the choices our leaders make, the majority has elected them to represent ALL of us.

When this country began it was a a lot smaller, simpler, less multi-cultural, less noisy, less divided, probably less confused as well.

The founders were not who we would today have as leaders. People like them just don’t make it through.

I think that the foundations/ principles that we were given at the outset, though they still seem extraordinary are both practically and philosophically barely holding us up well enough today. We are asking an awful lot of the Constitution and laws to keep us going on towards those ideals when it seems that too many have found ways to take advantage for selfish and purely partisan/ideological ends\ in order to prevail over the rest. This extends now to our foreign relations.This need to impose ourselves was not the original spirit of this country or it’s laws. If those that are to carry these ideas forward do not even understand this then the ideals we had and lost, or are losing, will live on elsewhere and better in other lands.

What I am ashamed of, and Jazzman puts it well too, is that we present ourselves and act as though we have arrived at what we set out to be and, from that dreamland, claim to have exceptional rights attached. In fact we are hardly there at all, And even if we were there should we be behaving in this way? Are we more losing the sense of who we set out to be (collectively and by example) altogether? Were we were ever supposed to arrive? Were we not just to strive? All that would mean some humility at least. Ironically, GWBush used that word when he ran in 2000. He used the word “humble”.

Mr. Wilson believes that the invasion of Iraq was justified by noble intent which was to improve the Iraqi citizen’s lot by deposing a brutal dictator and to bring freedom and our sense of democracy to that (artificial) country (an afterthought when WsMD were not discovered.) He is willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and over 4 thousand American service personnel not to mention the maiming of 30 thousand troops and untold civilians. He is fine with the sacrifices and disruptions on the homefront to support the war that most believed would not occur. All in the name of an abstract we call FREEDOM.

There is no real difference between that mode of thinking and any subjugator’s methodology. It is the consequentialism philosophy which states THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. We (whomever) believe that we have the Truth and our way is superior to yours because it is True and we will do whatever it takes to impose our will on you – we will kill you until you capitulate even if our citizens (not the leaders) have to die beating you into submission, we believe so strongly in our idea that nothing else matters.

He also deplores the excesses of personal freedom and maintains that it leads to depravity and immorality, overt sexual impropriety, trashy films and shallow pop songs instead of the entertainment gravitas of Frank Sinatra & Dean Martin (1 who married 4 times and the other who glorified intoxication) and decries the “banging on guitars” of modern music. He sounds like a curmudgeon who rails against those disrespectful whippersnappers. He hates us for our freedom (maybe al-Qaeda could find a role for him.)

The thing that makes us great and America the exception in this world and also its greatest promise is its codification of abstract ideals. The idea that a disparate populace could with a minimal set of universal (to the founders, flawed as they were personally) principles could govern themselves, peacefully transfer governmental power and settle disputes equitably by agreed upon rules, is one that has for better or worse enabled a unique model for the world to witness and if they choose, emulate.

So Sidewalker One is patriotic not to the physical country or cultures, it the love of the “Ideal America” which one relates to on a psychic level even though it may appear jingoistic it is to the idea from which these United States was created.

As Bill Clinton said at the Democratic Convention: “People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.”

Peace to ALL,

Jazzman

Maybe it’s that I’ve lived 20 years away that I feel not attachment to the nation-state. Of course I have attachments to my family and friends and fond memories. But I feel no need to defend or apologize for the actions of the nation-state.

It is one of the strangest things to me, this feeling of patriotism, as the love of a way of life or place that one thinks is the best in the world, especially when it is at the scale of the country. In the case of the US, there are many places and ways of life within, so how can one talk about a patriotism for America. Also, the way of life changes over time, so which America would one be a patriot to? Furthermore, there are so many places and ways of life that probably if experienced, one could fall in love with. That has happened with me in Tokyo. But I don’t think it is the best place in the world, so I can not call myself a Tokyo patriot.

Do you really believe what all the politicians have to say, that the US is the greatest country (gag!). If so, can you explain to me in what way?

I believe in Japan where you live- shame is an important emotion used to regulate social behavior. To some much lesser extent it is here too but the question is to what effect?

The use of patriotism to achieve and hold onto and abuse power is old and we are no exception ( speaking of exceptionalism) despite our Constitution.

When we vote in this republic, we vote for who we think will be on the right side of issues especially when it comes to war. Kerry misjudged Bush and Cheney. He should have known better before he voted. Kennedy of course knew better. In certain situations this does not absolve me though.

By the way I think the end of McCain’s speech (quoted below) to the roaring cheering crowd at the Republican convention was totally chilling. It had patriotic appeal but in the form of warring,being special, and with God. This was after the night when surrogates belittled Obama’s community service and still are. This after war protesters were intimidated and arrested in St. Paul:

If you find faults with our country, make it a better one. If you’re disappointed with the mistakes of government, join its ranks and work to correct them. Enlist in our armed forces. Become a teacher. Enter the ministry. Run for public office. Feed a hungry child. Teach an illiterate adult to read. Comfort the afflicted. Defend the rights of the oppressed. Our country will be the better, and you will be the happier. Because nothing brings greater happiness in life than to serve a cause greater than yourself.

I’m going to fight for my cause every day as your president. I’m going to fight to make sure every American has every reason to thank God, as I thank Him: that I’m an American, a proud citizen of the greatest country on earth, and with hard work, strong faith and a little courage, great things are always within our reach. Fight with me. Fight with me.

Fight for what’s right for our country.

Fight for the ideals and character of a free people.

Fight for our children’s future.

Fight for justice and opportunity for all.

Stand up to defend our country from its enemies.

Stand up for each other; for beautiful, blessed, bountiful America.

Stand up, stand up, stand up and fight. Nothing is inevitable here. We’re Americans, and we never give up. We never quit. We never hide from history. We make history.

Thank you, and God bless you.

I also wonder if the feeling of shame is not just the flip-side of a national pride that can easily be manipulated by those in power to get approval for their actions.

Sidewalker- when I say shame- I mean that living here in the USA, I am undeniably responsible for what has happened, what my country does no matter what I support or don’t support. I did not support going to war. I imagine that many of those who did support it, still do and cling to their views about the war having to do with protecting this country. This really saddens me.

I was in Spain in the Fall of 06 for a filming of something that my husband was doing for work and we were so warmly embraced. But one woman came up to me and shook her finger at me and asked how we could have elected Bush TWICE! All I could say was that I was sorry-I did not vote for him. This is what I mean. I was ashamed nevertheless.

potter, thank you for the gifts of clarity and insight and willingness to share. I read your comments and you’ve boiled it down quite beautifully. The link you provided is a real gift to me. This really illuminates a crux to a larger problem:

“McCain often says that he understands how hellish war is, and he said that again last night. Yet while he talks, once in a while, about the Forrestal tragedy, he never mentions his reaction to it. ”

The psychological fragmentation is fairly apparent to me. This occurs across the culture. Thus begins a game of bargaining where the stronger urges and impulses hold sway. I’ll probably have more to say about this latter.