Taking satisfaction in another’s misfortune is reprehensible but it is hard not to savor the discomfort of military combatants and their cheerleaders whose tender sensibilities feel violated by women poaching on the traditionally male turf of killing for god and country.

Poor babies.

As for women eager to get in on the action, your personal misfortune is tragic but how much additional outrage can you expect to inspire against men who are already organized for systematic killing of fellow (oh excuse me, I mean “enemy”) humans when we discover not only are killers killers, but rapists too?!!

As a matter of fact, if the military ever managed to incorporate heterosexuality into combat I fear it would only compound killing efficiency.

Channeling erotic life into the military enterprise certainly helped the Spartans, only that wasn’t heterosexual was it?

Brian, I would respectfully ask that you consider the behaviors of traumatized women in other situations. It is classic for an abused woman to stay with her abuser or move from one to another.

It’s not been my intention to minimize the abuse thing – indeed several of those near and dear to me have been in that situation. If I’ve contributed to that, you and others have my apologies. It was only my intent to provide what poor insight I could.

Toby was a powerful, but also disturging voice. Two infantry level soldiers tell her that the environment on the ground is full of inappropriate sexual behavior and she wants to claim that because she met one soldier who was civil, we should discount what the people on the ground are saying

Her experience is just as valid as anyone’s, nu?. And it was not one soldier but all of the infantry guys she knew. Her battalion was attached to an infantry division so she would have come into contact with a number of them.

Your point about the kind of guy that becomes a SNCO is valid; they have more schooling and more importantly experience than the guys running patrols at the squad level.

Jennyjean

He did not experience a woman 50 cal gunner but simply seemed to disagree point blank that it was more trouble than it was worth to have women in his unit because of the possibility of sex.

My take on that bit was that it was not the possibility of sex so much as a desire for an effective unit i.e. as a grunt he wants his unit to be the best it can be so they can be effective and go home together.

* How can I convince Wisconsin Public Radio to put y’all on the air?

* Great show and it speaks volumes for the quality of your production staff. A number of shows on PRI and NPR seem to not go out of their way to find diverse points of view if .. they’re too diverse on the ‘other’ side of the political aisle.

Not a liberal media bias (I hate that term) more an unwillingness to leave a zone of comfort. The first show I listened to with Niall Ferguson is a great example

* It is always nice to have one’s notions confirmed. In this case, that leadership matters.

Sonya Foster had problems when her leadership team failed her on her first deployment. Listening between the lines it sounds like Tina Bean did not have an effective leadership team – the abuse she said was ‘normal’ was not and an effective NCO and officer team would have put a stop to it. Frankly (again, between the lines) it sounds like she had a terrible work environment, out of her MOS, minimal training and indifferent NCOs.

As for working for Toby Johnson .. I’ll second that. The lady sounds like she has a lot of good going on. Assuming HBS does not cloud her good judgment I’d be happy to work with/for her in the future.

I’ll go further – assuming that LiftPort is a viable concern when she graduates, she’s welcome to pester us about a job when she’s got her MBA. Can’t promise a job but we need the best of the best for what we’re doing.

The knives thing can be mis-understood. Knives are merely a handy tool to have around – you can use the butt for an impromptu hammer. A digging tool. Opening MRE pouches. And so on. A Marine I knew would use his to slash open those Kellog’s one serving cereal boxes; one pass around the middle and you’re ready to serve.

They are rarely used for what you might think they would be used for i.e. stabbing or cutting other people.

Which isn’t to say that could not be used for that purpose.

Everyone whose primary weapon is a rifle is issued a bayonet. However the issue bayonet is generally a lousy knife – you can pick it up and it feels cheap. As if it were made by a lowest bid contractor. It’s the Ford Escort of knives.

Most Marines will purchase a fighting knife at the PX – usually a Kabar brand knife which a) has some history behind it and b) is a really excellent tool. Attach this to your deuce gear and you’re set.

Which is a long way to say that Sgt X may have had two knives but that is nothing unusual.

On the show Brendan read from Brian Dunbar’s post bove where he says:

“Everyone was tired, and frazzled from being on alert…” and “She felt actually pretty safe”

I don’t recall hearing this part:

“and of course, all of them were armed to the teeth.. (She always had at least two knives about her person.) ”

But maybe I have to listen again.

What’s so hard to get? That is not what is being said. If you read what is quoted above ( Helen Benedict, Salon) THIS is what she said

A 2003 survey of female veterans from Vietnam through the first Gulf War found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military.

Read the rest of the two quotes that I posted in bold here which are well sourced :

http://www.radioopensource.org/women-in-war/#comment-47639

So are you KNOWINGLY misrepresenting this? I just don’t understand the obstinacy. NOR the focus on this one error which you seem to go over and over gleefully to make your case error to trash all else.

The “embedded” media are not reporting about this. AND they are not reporting about a lot connected with this war including until recently the poor treatment of the returning vets. This story is connected with that one as well.

You cannot say honestly whether sexual harrrassment and PTSD are prevalent, nor is that the premise of this thread/show. But there is enough of it to be concerned ESPECIALLY since the symptoms are latent. I imagine soldiers “stuff it” to the best of their ability until they cannot or until they have the space to act out.

That the Navy said there was no rape complaint is entirely understandable. Many women do not complain. This is understood.

What I don’t understand RC21 is why you are so invested in negating all this which is very real. What are you defending? I imagine you have never served in wartime, like all of those who served who post on this thread perhaps with the exception of Redcatcher who apparently served so many years ago when women were not in combat.

Listen the whole point is this you are calling fact what is in reality anectdotal stories from women who have some sort of mental ailment.All the interviews are with women who claim to be suffering from ptsd. So they already have some mental problems. How many actually filed rape charges while in the service?

Randall was never in Iraq she was in Quam. her story is bogus the times knew it and they still ran with it . That is called dishonest journalism. You can dress it up anyway you would like the fact remains they KNOWINGLY printed a false story.

You seem to be more upset that FOX and the bloggers exposed a bogus and inaccurate story than you are with the Times for running it. That tells me alot about you.

Let me ask you this, if rape and sexual assault is so prevelant in the military. I believed one of the writers claimed 30% of women have been raped. Than why have none of the embedded media run with the story. We know they love to trash the military. All we have to do is look at what they have done with other stories that bash the military. They are front page news for months. Any reporter would love to get hold of a nice rape cover up. The truth is it just isn’t as prevelent as you and others would like us to believe. As to Randall read your own quote from above. the Navy said there was no rape complaint. I really don’t know what her problem is other than the fact she seems to be a habitual liar who is now looking for some free benefits.

I would really like to end this. Maybe if I had not served so many years in the service I would not care if you and others kept up with the innuendo and stories most of which offer no proof just acusation. But for some reason it bugs me because I know different.

RC21- If your were looking for such an opening to use as an occasion to justify your own position you seem to have found something little shred to grab onto:

RC21: I was attacked for expressing scepticism over much of the data and reporting I read on this issue.

Amorita Randall is not a “fictional” character. Apparently she believed her own story which if not entirely true indicates that there is some story, possibly illness that we might benefit from knowing about-very possibly PTSD. That is why I wonder. Obviously though she should not have been included in the story for the very reason you demonstrate. This story should have been checked well before it came to a decision about whether to pulp the whole magazine or even the story. Yet you are too ready to trash all else that is being said in favor of your claim that “this is not a fair or even remotely fair representation of women in the military”. Where is your evidence?

More importantly, this is not what is being claimed AND as well there are no proof/statistics one way or the other just emerging facts and emerging facts (and awareness of PTSD itself) from past wars. That there IS PTSD, and that many more cases than we know about and that are yet to come out there should be no doubt.

RC21-The marijuana smoking example and other points echo almost verbatim the pro-war, anti-NYTimes, anti-left blogs I read as I looked to check your “update” which had no link. These sites are also just drooling over this error and are every bit as much “a machine for dissemination of a fog of myths designed to innculcatele [sic] …theology in a gullible [sic] public” in the process.

So trash the whole subject claiming that all is now not valid- all is “shoddily researched” when you know nothing of the sort. All this from the wedge of this one error on the part of the NYT which has now grown to include the Salon article and others.

Of course this whole thing is a liberal fantasy a bunch of “lies” that sacrifice “truth and honesty. So tell me please or direct me to articles about “the true problem of REAL sexual violence in our culture and in the military” so I can have “a true understanding of this issue”.

Here is the NavyTimes link:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/03/navy_timesmagazine_veteranrape_070322w/

from the article:

“This lady was sexually assaulted twice in the Navy and no one was ever punished for it,” he [Randall's fiance Lund]said. While the Navy says it can find no rape complaint, Lund says she told her doctors about the assaults.

He added that no one has challenged the military records of the 30 other women mentioned in the article.

Gerry Marzorati, the editor of the Sunday NYTimes Magazine “I don’t think she was trying to pull the wool over our eyes.”

So again, beyond the drooling and the gotcha for those who hate the Times and are eager to catch stuff like this from time to time ( and would rather listen to FOX News )- I wonder what Amorita Randall’s real story is.

Corbett used phoney information in her story something that should easily and was easily verified. This poisons the rest of the story. Who knows about the rest of her “so called facts” How can you call an article that uses lies and deception a a valuable article.

The times doesn’t need me to discredit it . It does a great job of that all by itself.